Malekith Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 (edited) BG2 and IE games in general had an amazingly large and varied spell list, BG2 is easily the best spellcaster game ever made, with the "mage duels" one of the most memorable and fun parts of the game. I think that a true spiritual successor game should give extra attention to the spell system with a variety of diffirent effects, damage types and protections. I don't believe that they will manage to rival BG2 in this area, but it would be good if they could do it. Josh worked on IWD2 and Tim made Arcanum. If anyone can make a spell system to rival D&D are those two Edited January 23, 2013 by Malekith 1
Osvir Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 I think they could rival BG2, with some help from the community. But it's not anything to bet on perhaps.To be able to make more spells swiftly and simplified, I wouldn't mind it if Obsidian copy+pasted some spell animations, changed the hue/texture and mechanic effects a little bit. They could easily do 5 different spells using 1 spell animation this way (practically 5-in-1).
rjshae Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 (edited) Yes the BG2 spell list was large and varied, but didn't most of us end up just using about 20% of the spells? Changing spells was a time-consuming process, so it was usually better to pick the most useful ones and occasionally tweak situational-specific spells (like invisibility purge/see invisibility vs. the sirens). It might be interesting if the magic system had a counter-mechanic for overuse of specific spells. Say, if you cast magic missile all the time, then your magical link to that pattern grew worn and the spell became weakened. Another approach would be to have fewer magical patterns (spells) but many variants. You learn one of those variants to start with, then gradually expand your repertoire and learn to adjust it situationally. For example, your magic missiles could acquire knockback capability, delayed activation, elemental aspects, morale-lowering shrieking sounds, and so forth. Edited January 23, 2013 by rjshae "It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."
Sacred_Path Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 Yes the BG2 spell list was large and varied, but didn't most of us end up just using about 20% of the spells? Changing spells was a time-consuming process, so it was usually better to pick the most useful ones and occasionally tweak situational-specific spells (like invisibility purge/see invisibility vs. the sirens).There are just so many moments in a game with friendly fire where you'll pick Haste over Fireball, not to mention Lightning Bolt. So yeah I think they could do better than vanilla DnD.
Malekith Posted January 23, 2013 Author Posted January 23, 2013 Yes the BG2 spell list was large and varied, but didn't most of us end up just using about 20% of the spells? Changing spells was a time-consuming process, so it was usually better to pick the most useful ones and occasionally tweak situational-specific spells (like invisibility purge/see invisibility vs. the sirens). Yes but the most usefull one varied from person to person. You could make a purely offensive mage, pure defence, crowd control, a summoner, a mixed one. All valable choices, and the system gave you many options. 1
Osvir Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 (edited) Yes the BG2 spell list was large and varied, but didn't most of us end up just using about 20% of the spells? Changing spells was a time-consuming process, so it was usually better to pick the most useful ones and occasionally tweak situational-specific spells (like invisibility purge/see invisibility vs. the sirens). Multiple Playthroughs, one game you go 20%, another you go another 20%. It also gives a ton of ways to get varied, allows the Player to experiment (there might even be some spells designed to be "worse" than another spell, just to make the Player feel "Good" about his choice). It allows the Developers to make a game where Players/Gamers can play like they want to play as well. Several "Profession" thoughts and Faction thoughts goes into that bin as well, in my opinon (other threads~Campfire thread, Different Paths thread) (Only experiencing 20% on one playthrough, and another 20% on another playthrough). Edited January 23, 2013 by Osvir 1
TRX850 Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 We should start thinking about merging some of these threads now too. Maybe folks could submit 2 lists here. One list of spells they used most frequently, and another list of spells that were rarely or never used. And tell us why. Off the top of my head, in IWD2 in the Ice Temple, I'd cast Improved Invisibility on my Sorcerer, sneak into a room full of Ice Trolls, then take them out with Sunfire. Oh, the satisfaction! Spells I was least likely to use were the ones that didn't scale with level, like Minor Mirror Image, Summon Monster I, and most spells with the keyword "Minor" in them. I have other suggestions for both lists. Just need to take time and go back over them all. Me? I'm dishonest, and a dishonest man you can always trust to be dishonest. Honestly. It's the honest ones you want to watch out for.
Malekith Posted January 23, 2013 Author Posted January 23, 2013 Yes the BG2 spell list was large and varied, but didn't most of us end up just using about 20% of the spells? Changing spells was a time-consuming process, so it was usually better to pick the most useful ones and occasionally tweak situational-specific spells (like invisibility purge/see invisibility vs. the sirens). Yes but the most usefull one varied from person to person. You could make a purely offensive mage, pure defence, crowd control, a summoner, a mixed one. All valable choices, and the system gave you many options. Sure you can...if you have a second mage who has all the REQUIRED spells (dispel, breach etc.) because without them you cannot win a battle with any Mage. Which brings me to my opinion, it would be cool if a Mage could sustain only one passive defensive spell. Like in Mage:Ascension. That way Mage defense would be a tactical option rather than a required combination of 15 spells activated by spell sequencer. For example: expecting a raid on goblins with a lot of archers -> protection against arrows. Mage fight -> spell ward or energy shield. It's lame when you face an enemy Mage who is protected from everything and who can recast all his protections 3 times. I disagree with this. I would prefer layers of multiple defences
Hormalakh Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 (edited) They've already talked about certain modal abilities disallowing other modal abilities. I wonder if this was in regards to spells or something else. I've listed each spell and marked if commonly used (1), sometimes used (2), used once (3), never used (4) in spoilers below. I've added a blank template at the bottom (see last spoiler) so others can copy paste and do the same. The convention is to put the number 1-4 in front of the spell. In case, this becomes interesting for someone to take all the data and put it in an excel sheet, it would be easy because it's the first character for each spell. e.g. Armor -> 1Armor (often used) Blindness -> 4Blindess (rarely used) To get the template, reply to my message, then click on the top left button (looks like a switch) to switch to code mode. Then scroll all the way down, You can delete this introductory stuff and then edit the last spoiler by adding your numbers in front. Arcane Spells Level 1 1Armor 4Blindness4Burning Hands3Charm Person4Chill Touch2Chromatic Orb4Color Spray3Find Familiar2Friends4Grease4Identify4Infravision2Larloch's Minor Drain1Magic Missile4Nahal's Reckless Dweomer2Protection from Evil2Protection from Petrification4Reflected Image1Shield4Shocking Grasp4Sleep4Spook Arcane Spells Level 2 2Agannazar's Scorcher1Blur4Chaos Shield3Deafness2Detect Invisibility4Ghoul Touch4Glitterdust4Horror1Invisibility4Knock4Know Alignment1Luck1Melf's Acid Arrow1Mirror Image3Power Word, Sleep3Ray of Enfeeblement2Resist Fear4Stinking Cloud1Strength4Vocalize3Web Arcane Spells Level 3 4Clairvoyance4Detect Illusion3Dire Charm2Dispel Magic1Fireball1Flame Arrow4Ghost Armor1Haste2Hold Person4Hold Undead1Invisibility 10' Radius1Lightning Bolt4Melf's Minute Meteors4Minor Spell Deflection3Monster Summoning I4Non-Detection2Protection from Cold2Protection from Fire2Protection from Normal Missiles4Remove Magic1Skull Trap3Slow2Spell Thrust4Vampiric Touch Arcane Spells Level 4 2Confusion4Contagion4Emotion: Hopelessness4Enchanted Weapon3Farsight2Fireshield (Blue)2Fireshield (Red)1Greater Malison1Ice Storm1Improved Invisibility4Minor Globe of Invulnerability4Minor Sequencer3Monster Summoning II4Otiluke's Resillient Sphere4Polymorph Other4Polymorph Self3Remove Curse4Secret Word2Spider Spawn2Spirit Armor1Stoneskin4Teleport Field3Wizard Eye Arcane Spells Level 5 4Animate Dead1Breach2Chaos2Cloudkill2Cone of Cold4Conjure Lesser Air Elemental4Conjure Lesser Earth Elemental4Conjure Lesser Fire Elemental3Domination4Feeblemind3Hold Monster1Lower Resistance4Minor Spell Turning1Monster Summoning III4Oracle3Phantom Blade2Protection from Acid2Protection from Electricity2Protection from Normal Weapons3Shadow Door1Spell Immunity3Spell Shield4Sunfire Arcane Spells Level 6 4Carrion Summons2Chain Lightning4Conjure Air Elemental4Conjure Earth Elemental4Conjure Fire Elemental2Contingency3Death Fog4Death Spell2Disintegrate - loot was too good4Flesh to Stone - loot was too good4Globe of Invulnerability2Improved Haste2Invisible Stalker4Mislead1Pierce Magic4Power Word, Silence2Protection from Magic Energy2Protection from Magical Weapons1Spell Deflection2Stone to Flesh3Summon Nishruu3Tenser's Transformation1True Sight4Wyvern Call Arcane Spells Level 7 3Cacofiend4Control Undead1Delayed Blast Fireball1Finger of Death3Improved Chaos Shield3Limited Wish1Mantle1Mass Invisibility1Mordenkainen's Sword4Power Word, Stun2Prismatic Spray2Project Image2Protection from Elements1Ruby Ray of Reversal1Spell Sequencer1Spell Turning1Sphere of Chaos4Summon Djinni4Summon Efreeti4Summon Hakeashar2Khelben's Warding Whip Arcane Spells Level 8 1Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting4Bigby's Clenched Fist1Improved Mantle1Incendiary Cloud2Maze1Pierce Shield4Power Word, Blind2Protection from Energy1Simulacrum2Spell Trigger4Summon Fiend3Symbol, Death3Symbol, Fear3Symbol, Stun Arcane Spells Level 9 1Absolute Immunity4Bigby's Crushing Hand4Black Blade of Disaster2Chain Contingency1Energy Drain3Freedom - Quest4Gate - Demon always attacked me even with Protection against Evil3Imprisonment2Meteor Swarm4Power Word, Kill4Shapechange1Spellstrike1Spell Trap1Time Stop3Wail of the Banshee3Wish Arcane Spells Level 10 1Comet1Dragon's Breath4Energy Blades1Improved Alacrity2Summon Dark Planetar2Summon Planetar Arcane Spells Level 1 Armor BlindnessBurning HandsCharm PersonChill TouchChromatic OrbColor SprayFind FamiliarFriendsGreaseIdentifyInfravisionLarloch's Minor DrainMagic MissileNahal's Reckless DweomerProtection from EvilProtection from PetrificationReflected ImageShieldShocking GraspSleepSpook Arcane Spells Level 2 Agannazar's ScorcherBlurChaos ShieldDeafnessDetect InvisibilityGhoul TouchGlitterdustHorrorInvisibilityKnockKnow AlignmentLuckMelf's Acid ArrowMirror ImagePower Word, SleepRay of EnfeeblementResist FearStinking CloudStrengthVocalizeWeb Arcane Spells Level 3 ClairvoyanceDetect IllusionDire CharmDispel MagicFireballFlame ArrowGhost ArmorHasteHold PersonHold UndeadInvisibility 10' RadiusLightning BoltMelf's Minute MeteorsMinor Spell DeflectionMonster Summoning INon-DetectionProtection from ColdProtection from FireProtection from Normal MissilesRemove MagicSkull TrapSlowSpell ThrustVampiric Touch Arcane Spells Level 4 ConfusionContagionEmotion: HopelessnessEnchanted WeaponFarsightFireshield (Blue)Fireshield (Red)Greater MalisonIce StormImproved InvisibilityMinor Globe of InvulnerabilityMinor SequencerMonster Summoning IIOtiluke's Resillient SpherePolymorph OtherPolymorph SelfRemove CurseSecret WordSpider SpawnSpirit ArmorStoneskinTeleport FieldWizard Eye Arcane Spells Level 5 Animate DeadBreachChaosCloudkillCone of ColdConjure Lesser Air ElementalConjure Lesser Earth ElementalConjure Lesser Fire ElementalDominationFeeblemindHold MonsterLower ResistanceMinor Spell TurningMonster Summoning IIIOraclePhantom BladeProtection from AcidProtection from ElectricityProtection from Normal WeaponsShadow DoorSpell ImmunitySpell ShieldSunfire Arcane Spells Level 6 Carrion SummonsChain LightningConjure Air ElementalConjure Earth ElementalConjure Fire ElementalContingencyDeath FogDeath SpellDisintegrateFlesh to StoneGlobe of InvulnerabilityImproved HasteInvisible StalkerMisleadPierce MagicPower Word, SilenceProtection from Magic EnergyProtection from Magical WeaponsSpell DeflectionStone to FleshSummon NishruuTenser's TransformationTrue SightWyvern Call Arcane Spells Level 7 CacofiendControl UndeadDelayed Blast FireballFinger of DeathImproved Chaos ShieldLimited WishMantleMass InvisibilityMordenkainen's SwordPower Word, StunPrismatic SprayProject ImageProtection from ElementsRuby Ray of ReversalSpell SequencerSpell TurningSphere of ChaosSummon DjinniSummon EfreetiSummon HakeasharKhelben's Warding Whip Arcane Spells Level 8 Abi-Dalzim's Horrid WiltingBigby's Clenched FistImproved MantleIncendiary CloudMazePierce ShieldPower Word, BlindProtection from EnergySimulacrumSpell TriggerSummon FiendSymbol, DeathSymbol, FearSymbol, Stun Arcane Spells Level 9 Absolute ImmunityBigby's Crushing HandBlack Blade of DisasterChain ContingencyEnergy DrainFreedomGateImprisonmentMeteor SwarmPower Word, KillShapechangeSpellstrikeSpell TrapTime StopWail of the BansheeWish Arcane Spells Level 10 CometDragon's BreathEnergy BladesImproved AlacritySummon Dark PlanetarSummon Planetar Edited January 23, 2013 by Hormalakh 2 My blog is where I'm keeping a record of all of my suggestions and bug mentions. http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/ UPDATED 9/26/2014 My DXdiag: http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/2014/08/beta-begins-v257.html
Malekith Posted January 23, 2013 Author Posted January 23, 2013 Arcane Spells Level 1 3Armor4Blindness3Burning Hands4Charm Person4Chill Touch1Chromatic Orb4Color Spray3Find Familiar3Friends3Grease2Identify4Infravision3Larloch's Minor Drain1Magic Missile4Nahal's Reckless Dweomer2Protection from Evil3Protection from Petrification4Reflected Image3Shield4Shocking Grasp4Sleep2Spook Arcane Spells Level 2 3Agannazar's Scorcher3Blur4Chaos Shield4Deafness2Detect Invisibility3Ghoul Touch4Glitterdust2Horror2Invisibility2Knock4Know Alignment3Luck1Melf's Acid Arrow1Mirror Image4Power Word, Sleep3Ray of Enfeeblement2Resist Fear4Stinking Cloud4Strength3Vocalize1Web Arcane Spells Level 3 4Clairvoyance3Detect Illusion4Dire Charm1Dispel Magic1Fireball1Flame Arrow3Ghost Armor1Haste3Hold Person3Hold Undead3Invisibility 10' Radius2Lightning Bolt2Melf's Minute Meteors3Minor Spell Deflection4Monster Summoning I3Non-Detection3Protection from Cold3Protection from Fire3Protection from Normal Missiles1Remove Magic2Skull Trap1Slow4Spell Thrust4Vampiric Touch Arcane Spells Level 4 3Confusion4Contagion3Emotion: Hopelessness4Enchanted Weapon4Farsight3Fireshield (Blue)3Fireshield (Red)1Greater Malison1Ice Storm3Improved Invisibility4Minor Globe of Invulnerability3Minor Sequencer4Monster Summoning II4Otiluke's Resillient Sphere4Polymorph Other4Polymorph Self3Remove Curse4Secret Word1Spider Spawn3Spirit Armor1Stoneskin3Teleport Field2Wizard Eye Arcane Spells Level 5 1Animate Dead1Breach3Chaos1Cloudkill1Cone of Cold4Conjure Lesser Air Elemental4Conjure Lesser Earth Elemental4Conjure Lesser Fire Elemental4Domination4Feeblemind3Hold Monster2Lower Resistance3Minor Spell Turning4Monster Summoning III4Oracle4Phantom Blade4Protection from Acid4Protection from Electricity3Protection from Normal Weapons3Shadow Door3Spell Immunity3Spell Shield2Sunfire Arcane Spells Level 6 4Carrion Summons1Chain Lightning3Conjure Air Elemental3Conjure Earth Elemental3Conjure Fire Elemental2Contingency3Death Fog1Death Spell3Disintegrate3Flesh to Stone4Globe of Invulnerability4Improved Haste4Invisible Stalker2Mislead3Pierce Magic2Power Word, Silence3Protection from Magic Energy1Protection from Magical Weapons3Spell Deflection3Stone to Flesh3Summon Nishruu4Tenser's Transformation2True Sight4Wyvern Call Arcane Spells Level 7 4Cacofiend4Control Undead2Delayed Blast Fireball1Finger of Death4Improved Chaos Shield2Limited Wish3Mantle3Mass Invisibility2Mordenkainen's Sword1Power Word, Stun2Prismatic Spray2Project Image4Protection from Elements4Ruby Ray of Reversal2Spell Sequencer1Spell Turning3Sphere of Chaos4Summon Djinni4Summon Efreeti3Summon Hakeashar4Khelben's Warding Whip Arcane Spells Level 8 1Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting4Bigby's Clenched Fist3Improved Mantle4Incendiary Cloud3Maze3Pierce Shield4Power Word, Blind4Protection from Energy2Simulacrum3Spell Trigger4Summon Fiend4Symbol, Death4Symbol, Fear4Symbol, Stun Arcane Spells Level 9 3Absolute Immunity3Bigby's Crushing Hand3Black Blade of Disaster2Chain Contingency4Energy Drain3Freedom3Gate3Imprisonment2Meteor Swarm2Power Word, Kill2Shapechange1Spellstrike1Spell Trap1Time Stop3Wail of the Banshee2Wish Arcane Spells Level 10 1Comet1Dragon's Breath2Energy Blades1Improved Alacrity1Summon Dark Planetar3Summon Planetar 1
Osvir Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 (edited) Arcane Spells Level 1 1Armor1Blindness4Burning Hands3Charm Person4Chill Touch2Chromatic Orb1Color Spray4Find Familiar4Friends2Grease1Identify4Infravision3Larloch's Minor Drain1Magic Missile4Nahal's Reckless Dweomer1Protection from Evil2Protection from Petrification3Reflected Image2Shield4Shocking Grasp1Sleep4Spook Arcane Spells Level 2 1Agannazar's Scorcher1Blur4Chaos Shield4Deafness2Detect Invisibility4Ghoul Touch3Glitterdust1Horror2Invisibility3Knock3Know Alignment1Luck1Melf's Acid Arrow1Mirror Image2Power Word, Sleep2Ray of Enfeeblement1Resist Fear2Stinking Cloud3Strength3Vocalize1Web Arcane Spells Level 3 4Clairvoyance2Detect Illusion4Dire Charm2Dispel Magic1Fireball1Flame Arrow2Ghost Armor1Haste2Hold Person4Hold Undead3Invisibility 10' Radius1Lightning Bolt1Melf's Minute Meteors2Minor Spell Deflection3Monster Summoning I3Non-Detection2Protection from Cold2Protection from Fire3Protection from Normal Missiles2Remove Magic4Skull Trap1Slow4Spell Thrust4Vampiric Touch Arcane Spells Level 4 2Confusion3Contagion3Emotion: Hopelessness4Enchanted Weapon4Farsight4Fireshield (Blue)4Fireshield (Red)4Greater Malison1Ice Storm2Improved Invisibility2Minor Globe of Invulnerability4Minor Sequencer3Monster Summoning II2Otiluke's Resillient Sphere4Polymorph Other4Polymorph Self4Remove Curse4Secret Word4Spider Spawn3Spirit Armor3Stoneskin4Teleport Field4Wizard Eye Arcane Spells Level 5 2Animate Dead4Breach2Chaos2Cloudkill1Cone of Cold4Conjure Lesser Air Elemental4Conjure Lesser Earth Elemental4Conjure Lesser Fire Elemental3Domination4Feeblemind3Hold Monster4Lower Resistance4Minor Spell Turning3Monster Summoning III4Oracle4Phantom Blade2Protection from Acid2Protection from Electricity2Protection from Normal Weapons4Shadow Door1Spell Immunity2Spell Shield1Sunfire Arcane Spells Level 6 4Carrion Summons1Chain Lightning3Conjure Air Elemental3Conjure Earth Elemental3Conjure Fire Elemental4Contingency2Death Fog2Death Spell4Disintegrate4Flesh to Stone2Globe of Invulnerability1Improved Haste4Invisible Stalker4Mislead4Pierce Magic2Power Word, Silence2Protection from Magic Energy2Protection from Magical Weapons2Spell Deflection1Stone to Flesh4Summon Nishruu4Tenser's Transformation2True Sight4Wyvern Call Looks like I haven't gotten to Level 7 or higher in Baldur's Gate yet Edited January 23, 2013 by Osvir
jivex5k Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 The more spells the better, as long as they aren't simply stronger versions of one another. I don't want an improved invisibility spell, just allow me to improve my spellcasting overall. And I don't really want spells that are only slightly different, like say a camouflage spell that is more effective outdoors than an invisibility spell which works better indoors or something. But different spell shields are cool, one for deflecting spells, one for melee damage, one for projectile damage. 2
rjshae Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 I wouldn't mind seeing a different approach to meta-magic than is used in D&D 3e. A spell is, in a sense an effect applied with a set of properties. Why can't I fiddle with those properties and enhance it in some manner while diminishing it in another? If I want to cast it silently, I could reduce the casting level, increase the casting time, diminish the effectiveness, make it cost an extra spell slot, or adjust some other factor. "It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."
Somna Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 Sure, why not. A lot of this is from memory though. Arcane Spells Level 1 2Armor 3Blindness 2Burning Hands 4Charm Person 3Chill Touch 1Chromatic Orb 3Color Spray 4Find Familiar 2Friends 2Grease 2Identify 3Infravision 3Larloch's Minor Drain 1Magic Missile 3Nahal's Reckless Dweomer 2Protection from Evil 3Protection from Petrification 3Reflected Image 1Shield 3Shocking Grasp 3Sleep 4Spook Arcane Spells Level 2 2Agannazar's Scorcher 2Blur 3Chaos Shield 3Deafness 2Detect Invisibility 3Ghoul Touch 2Glitterdust 3Horror 1Invisibility 3Knock 4Know Alignment 1Luck 1Melf's Acid Arrow 1Mirror Image 3Power Word, Sleep 3Ray of Enfeeblement 4Resist Fear 2Stinking Cloud 4Strength 2Vocalize 3Web Arcane Spells Level 3 3Clairvoyance 3Detect Illusion 4Dire Charm 2Dispel Magic 1Fireball 2Flame Arrow 2Ghost Armor 1Haste 4Hold Person 4Hold Undead 1Invisibility 10' Radius 1Lightning Bolt 3Melf's Minute Meteors 3Minor Spell Deflection 3Monster Summoning I 3Non-Detection 4Protection from Cold 4Protection from Fire 2Protection from Normal Missiles 3Remove Magic 2Skull Trap 3Slow 3Spell Thrust 3Vampiric Touch Arcane Spells Level 4 3Confusion 3Contagion 3Emotion: Hopelessness 3Enchanted Weapon 3Farsight 2Fireshield (Blue) 2Fireshield (Red) 2Greater Malison 2Ice Storm 1Improved Invisibility 3Minor Globe of Invulnerability 2Minor Sequencer 3Monster Summoning II 3Otiluke's Resillient Sphere 4Polymorph Other 4Polymorph Self 3Remove Curse 3Secret Word 3Spider Spawn 2Spirit Armor 1Stoneskin 4Teleport Field 2Wizard Eye Arcane Spells Level 5 4Animate Dead 1Breach 2Chaos 2Cloudkill 2Cone of Cold 2Conjure Lesser Air Elemental 2Conjure Lesser Earth Elemental 2Conjure Lesser Fire Elemental 3Domination 3Feeblemind 2Hold Monster 1Lower Resistance 3Minor Spell Turning 1Monster Summoning III 4Oracle 3Phantom Blade 4Protection from Acid 4Protection from Electricity 2Protection from Normal Weapons 3Shadow Door 2Spell Immunity 3Spell Shield 3Sunfire Arcane Spells Level 6 3Carrion Summons 2Chain Lightning 3Conjure Air Elemental 3Conjure Earth Elemental 3Conjure Fire Elemental 2Contingency 3Death Fog 3Death Spell 3Disintegrate 3Flesh to Stone 2Globe of Invulnerability 2Improved Haste 2Invisible Stalker 3Mislead 1Pierce Magic 3Power Word, Silence 2Protection from Magic Energy 2Protection from Magical Weapons 1Spell Deflection 2Stone to Flesh 2Summon Nishruu 3Tenser's Transformation 1True Sight 3Wyvern Call Arcane Spells Level 7 3Cacofiend 4Control Undead 1Delayed Blast Fireball 4Finger of Death 3Improved Chaos Shield 3Limited Wish 1Mantle 2Mass Invisibility 2Mordenkainen's Sword 2Power Word, Stun 2Prismatic Spray 2Project Image 4Protection from Elements 1Ruby Ray of Reversal 1Spell Sequencer 1Spell Turning 1Sphere of Chaos 3Summon Djinni 3Summon Efreeti 1Summon Hakeashar 2Khelben's Warding Whip Arcane Spells Level 8 1Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting 3Bigby's Clenched Fist 1Improved Mantle 1Incendiary Cloud 2Maze 1Pierce Shield 3Power Word, Blind 4Protection from Energy 1Simulacrum 2Spell Trigger 4Summon Fiend 4Symbol, Death 3Symbol, Fear 3Symbol, Stun Arcane Spells Level 9 2Absolute Immunity 3Bigby's Crushing Hand 3Black Blade of Disaster 2Chain Contingency 4Energy Drain 3Freedom 4Gate 3Imprisonment 3Meteor Swarm 3Power Word, Kill 2Shapechange 1Spellstrike 1Spell Trap 1Time Stop 3Wail of the Banshee 3Wish Arcane Spells Level 10 3Comet 3Dragon's Breath 3Energy Blades 1Improved Alacrity 2Summon Dark Planetar 1Summon Planetar
JFSOCC Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 BG2 and IE games in general had an amazingly large and varied spell list, BG2 is easily the best spellcaster game ever made, with the "mage duels" one of the most memorable and fun parts of the game. I think that a true spiritual successor game should give extra attention to the spell system with a variety of diffirent effects, damage types and protections. I don't believe that they will manage to rival BG2 in this area, but it would be good if they could do it. Josh worked on IWD2 and Tim made Arcanum. If anyone can make a spell system to rival D&D are those two BG2 might be a great spellcaster game, but if you don't like magic or wish low-key magic, you're going to have a bad time. I didn't enjoy the overpowered nature of magic users. (especially on higher levels) Remember: Argue the point, not the person. Remain polite and constructive. Friendly forums have friendly debate. There's no shame in being wrong. If you don't have something to add, don't post for the sake of it. And don't be afraid to post thoughts you are uncertain about, that's what discussion is for.---Pet threads, everyone has them. I love imagining Gods, Monsters, Factions and Weapons.
Malekith Posted January 23, 2013 Author Posted January 23, 2013 (edited) BG2 and IE games in general had an amazingly large and varied spell list, BG2 is easily the best spellcaster game ever made, with the "mage duels" one of the most memorable and fun parts of the game. I think that a true spiritual successor game should give extra attention to the spell system with a variety of diffirent effects, damage types and protections. I don't believe that they will manage to rival BG2 in this area, but it would be good if they could do it. Josh worked on IWD2 and Tim made Arcanum. If anyone can make a spell system to rival D&D are those two BG2 might be a great spellcaster game, but if you don't like magic or wish low-key magic, you're going to have a bad time. I didn't enjoy the overpowered nature of magic users. (especially on higher levels) P:E will be a high-key magic setting, but the first game will finish at relativelly low levels, so it will be more like BG1. Also you could beat the game without magic users in your party Edited January 23, 2013 by Malekith
Lephys Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 I actually love friendly-fire with big, giant, scary-powerful spells. But, all things in moderation. It might be interesting if there were talents/spell-improvements you could pick that reduced/affected friendly fire from your AOE spells. The key word being "might." It'd hafta be more interesting than "the more points you put into this upgrade, the less damage your allies take from your spell-splosions!" Maybe just have a really good/convenient set of protection spells to choose from? So, one player might just not mind the micromanagement necessary to keep his allies out of harm's way when he strategically launches fireballs, and he'll spend 5 more points on improving his damage and offensive spells, and another player might say "Hey, I LOVE tossing fireballs and chain lightning, but I don't want my allies to die all the time," and get some "Bestows protection from fire within a 15-foot radius. 3 charges. Each instance of negated fire damage uses 1 charge" spell. *shrug* Also, I think some kind of callout should be in order. Like how you can usually yell "GRENADE!" in a shooter and your allies can get away from the enemies. Targeting a fireball or lightning tempest should work with potential party AI to have them try to get out of the way when it's feasible (when they're not stunned, or surrounded, or knocked on their arse, etc.) You're still going to have times when they get hit by stuff. I'm not against the option to turn off friendly fire (usually tied to easier difficulty modes), but if you have that on, it should still be pretty managable. In most games like that I've played, the player has almost no tools at their disposal for getting allies out of the blast zone whilst leaving enemies in. At the very least, you should have an option such as to cast fire resistance on a specific member of your party (to just reduce fire damage, not negate it, even), who then has the ability to keep multiple enemies in the blast radius of a spell whilst other allies get out. In other words, you hurt your own person, in a very planned way, to hurt many enemy persons substantially worse. It should require effort, but the player shouldn't have to be a jedi just to pull it off. This kinda ties into the idea of useful/plentiful cross-character combos. 1 Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u
TRX850 Posted January 24, 2013 Posted January 24, 2013 Also reminds me of someone's NWN walkthrough suggestion of having a hell hound (100% immunity to fire) as your wizard's familiar, and sending it out as a combat decoy, then fireballing it and all surrounding enemies. Rinse and repeat. 1 Me? I'm dishonest, and a dishonest man you can always trust to be dishonest. Honestly. It's the honest ones you want to watch out for.
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