Ciphers: Inspirations and their mechanics

[TRX850]

Psychokinetic Ability

 

Persuade Mechanism

- Entice non-magical locks into opening.

- Entice non-magical traps into disarming.

 

 

Psychosensory Ability

 

Detect Trap

- Divine traps within close proximity.

 

Maybe the Cipher will always be a certain number of levels behind a maxed-out rogue in this department. Maybe traps/locks are particularly draining, so possibly inefficient during a dungeon crawl.

[Umberlin]

Gradually powering up abilities => shades of Goku in Dragon Ball Z...

 

It actually reminds me of the DAoC Heretic, a healer and damage dealer whose magical fire damage started low and build up over time (it was channeled). Just the note that they're going to grow in strength, over time, in battle, gives me the impression that they will have some form of non-melee damage - not just their manipulation abilities. What sort of damage, exactly, I guess is anyone's guess but it bring me back to the older discussion on Ciphers where some of the forumites noted the Cipher may have Telekinetic or Psychic damage abilities, having links with Psionics and other 'Mind Mages' . . . 

 

I say that despite the notes on 'souls', though, likely in the theme of souls rather than the mind, even if the manipulative aspects draw parallels.

Edited January 26, 2013 by Umberlin

[TRX850]

Also reminds me of the Weirding Module from Dune.

 

 

Instead of a vocal/sonic source point, the Cipher could have an intellect/soul source point, and be able to deliver physical damage via non-melee means.

[Osvir]

This is on the Rogue but will be related to this Cipher thread:

 

While rogues are known for their stealthy nature both in and out of battle, many of them are quite talented with machines and contraptions of all sorts

 

1. Does that mean Steampunk?

The on-topic question:
2. Could a Cipher use some experimental "machine" or "contraption" to enhance their Ciphering?

[TRX850]

Some kind of Brainiac device?

 

[Osvir]

Maybe less Sci-Fi and more Medieval err... Steampunk?

Never seen that before Now I have:

I'm a sucker for detail, and the "pressure" clock on the back there hits me right in the heart.


With a gun: "Like a glove", not the same guy as above or "contraption".

This one, looks coolest (artsy):


EDIT:

Steampunk Cyborgs?

Edited January 26, 2013 by Osvir

[Nonek]

Monsters from the Id - Within every man lurk hidden fears, the Cipher cracks open the doors of childhood dread and releases a devil to feast upon the recipients mind. At first this is a small thing, and the target is merely dicomforted and uneasy, but as the Cipher delves deeper into the deep instinctual level of the psyche more horrendous banes are called forth. Some subjected to such intrusive methods have been known to collapse into catatonic states, or even have their hearts burst from the strain. A rare few are said to have conquered their fears, by knowing themselves and accepting the beast.

 

To Sleep Perchance - The Cipher quietly begins to hum a lullaby, a little nonsense childhood tune made to lure babes to their pillows. The minds of all those around begin to grow drowsy as they hear this, and slowly sweet slumber becomes an insistent demand. Eventually only those most strong of mind will avoid the temptation of sleep, but others will fall all too easily. It is said that an heroic Cipher once bound a cruel tyrannous princess and her entire court into such a slumber, and left them to die dreaming their sweet dreams, justice of a kind.

Edited January 26, 2013 by Nonek

[rjshae]

There's a lot of actions that can be performed with a TK ability. I once built an item (in NWN2) to summon an invisible servant, which then functioned like a TK power. It allowed you to:

• Retrieve a distant item; carrying 20 lbs. within 100 meters, or drag 100 lbs. within 20 meters.
• Open or close an unlocked door.
• Operate a placeable. If the placeable is trapped, this will trigger it.
• Try to trigger a trap that is activated by entry: 10 + 1d20 versus the Disarm DC of the trap.
• Distract a creature, thereby briefly lowering it's listen/spot skill by -2 for 1d4+1 rounds.

Then, of course, there were the various Bigby hand spells for more potent TK effects. Intermediate TK effects could perhaps lower the Dex of a target, make a shield less effective at blocking, or a weapon less effective at hitting. It might also convey a hurled grenade to precisely the right spot.

[Acre]

I'd rather they didn't have telekinetic powers, but that's just my preference. It would be interesting if they could make, say, an enemy holding keys unlock a door, or activate a mechanism, so they wouldn't crib too much of the rogue's responsibilities. Although I like the idea of a TK "mordekainen's" sword.

[Umberlin]

Also reminds me of the Weirding Module from Dune.

 

No such thing ever existed in Dune.

 

 

This is on the Rogue but will be related to this Cipher thread:

 

While rogues are known for their stealthy nature both in and out of battle, many of them are quite talented with machines and contraptions of all sorts

 

1. Does that mean Steampunk?

 

The on-topic question:

2. Could a Cipher use some experimental "machine" or "contraption" to enhance their Ciphering?

 

Doubtful.

 

 

I'd

rather they didn't have telekinetic powers, but that's just my

preference. It would be interesting if they could make, say, an enemy

holding keys unlock a door, or activate a mechanism, so they wouldn't

crib too much of the rogue's responsibilities. Although I like the idea

of a TK "mordekainen's" sword.

 

The notes we have, up to this point, make it pretty obvious they'll have some sort of damage and utility beyond the manipulation of others. Whether that's TK abilities or soul burns, or something still more exotic, is anyone's guess at this point. All we know is that such abilities build in power as they're used. Typically, because of my experience with 'building' damage in other settings, that tends to mean damage over time - be it a traditional DoT, a channeled abilities or short duration, but building, burning effects of some sort . . . of course that's all speculation.

 

Actually Allods online had what amounted a mind mage with some similar notes, forming a connection with the target and it allowing them to affect them more drastically, for example. There are just a lot of possibilities, or takes, on the information we have at this point without further, and very specific, information to give the current more general revelations context.

Edited January 26, 2013 by Umberlin

[TRX850]

 

Also reminds me of the Weirding Module from Dune.

 

No such thing ever existed in Dune.

 

 

In the David Lynch movie I mean. Some "behind the scenes" trivia here about why they used the Weirding Module in place of the Bene Gesserit martial art known as the Weirding Way.

[Umberlin]

 

 

Also reminds me of the Weirding Module from Dune.

 

No such thing ever existed in Dune.

 

 

In the David Lynch movie I mean. Some "behind the scenes" trivia here about why they used the Weirding Module in place of the Bene Gesserit martial art known as the Weirding Way.

 

In other words it never existed.

Edited January 26, 2013 by Umberlin

[Hormalakh]

Monsters from the Id - Within every man lurk hidden fears, the Cipher cracks open the doors of childhood dread and releases a devil to feast upon the recipients mind. At first this is a small thing, and the target is merely dicomforted and uneasy, but as the Cipher delves deeper into the deep instinctual level of the psyche more horrendous banes are called forth. Some subjected to such intrusive methods have been known to collapse into catatonic states, or even have their hearts burst from the strain. A rare few are said to have conquered their fears, by knowing themselves and accepting the beast.

 

To Sleep Perchance - The Cipher quietly begins to hum a lullaby, a little nonsense childhood tune made to lure babes to their pillows. The minds of all those around begin to grow drowsy as they hear this, and slowly sweet slumber becomes an insistent demand. Eventually only those most strong of mind will avoid the temptation of sleep, but others will fall all too easily. It is said that an heroic Cipher once bound a cruel tyrannous princess and her entire court into such a slumber, and left them to die dreaming their sweet dreams, justice of a kind.

I'm really liking your ideas Nonek! Keep em coming.

 

----

 

Steampunk, I'm not so fond of. At least not for this game.

[Lephys]

In other words it never existed.

 

It didn't exist "in Dune," but it existed in the particular film he's referencing. He's not claiming it existed outside of the film, but if it didn't exist, none of us could even be referring to it right now.

 

Whether or not it was in the original Dune canon/lore, TRX was remound of it, nonetheless, and believes something similar to that concept would be cool for Ciphers. I don't see a flaw here. *shrug*

 

 

 

There's a lot of actions that can be performed with a TK ability. I once built an item (in NWN2) to summon an invisible servant, which then functioned like a TK power. It allowed you to:

• Retrieve a distant item; carrying 20 lbs. within 100 meters, or drag 100 lbs. within 20 meters.
• Open or close an unlocked door.
• Operate a placeable. If the placeable is trapped, this will trigger it.
• Try to trigger a trap that is activated by entry: 10 + 1d20 versus the Disarm DC of the trap.
• Distract a creature, thereby briefly lowering it's listen/spot skill by -2 for 1d4+1 rounds.

Then, of course, there were the various Bigby hand spells for more potent TK effects. Intermediate TK effects could perhaps lower the Dex of a target, make a shield less effective at blocking, or a weapon less effective at hitting. It might also convey a hurled grenade to precisely the right spot.

 

ZOMG! Quest objective option (if you have a telekinetic Cipher): Convince the corrupt lord that his manor is ferociously haunted by restless souls who want his blood (Help the community by dealing with the corrupt lord.)

Edited January 26, 2013 by Lephys

[rjshae]

Eh.

 

Would like to be able to reach out and trip up that enemy scout that is running away to warn the main force.

[TRX850]

Gravity Well

- The Cipher targets an AoE or individual enemy.

- All carried items weigh considerably more, potentially encumbering the enemy. Amount scales with level.

- Similar to Slow effect.

- Intelligent creatures must make a will save or drop armour, weapons and other items, starting with the heaviest item first.

[Lephys]

Gravity Well

- The Cipher targets an AoE or individual enemy.

- All carried items weigh considerably more, potentially encumbering the enemy. Amount scales with level.

- Similar to Slow effect.

- Intelligent creatures must make a will save or drop armour, weapons and other items, starting with the heaviest item first.

 

I like all the rest, but "drop armor" sounds a bit funny. If your heavy breastplate's buckled onto your torso, and IT'S being pulled upon by a psycho-kinetic gravity well, then wouldn't you simply be pulled with it? I guess you COULD unbuckle it and drop it, as a tactical "I can avoid getting pulled with it!" reactionary decision. *ponder*...

 

Also, while the effect is in place, can you re-supply on gravity from the well with a gravity bucket? (I had to, )

 

ALSO (in seriousness), I really like the "targets an AoE or individual enemy" part. I reference the Fable spell system in another thread, and I think that's one of the few highly valuable things from that system. On abilities where it made sense, you could either target an area (for a lesser potency of the effect across the area), OR focus the exact same ability/spell effect at an individual enemy (for greater potency.)

Edited January 26, 2013 by Lephys

[TRX850]

I'm just trying to think of ways a Cipher could emulate arcane spell effects. Then add a twist.

 

These suggestions are by no means absolute. Trying to think how an enemy might react logically to something like sudden encumbrance.

 

Maybe there could be a separate ability that forces the enemy to drop amour.

 

Drop and Give Me Twenty

- Enemies drop their armour then hand over 20gp.

 

No?

[TRX850]

Chameleon Skin

- Hide skill receives bonus equal to Cipher level.

 

Summon Intellect Devourer

- Summon 6 HD creature for 30 seconds plus 10 seconds per level.
 

Light Storm

- High intensity strobing light effect.

- Target AoE or individual enemy.

- Will save or become dazed or confused.

 

There are many other arcane spells that Ciphers could emulate.

 

- Sleep

- Identify

- Ray of Enfeeblement

- Blur

 

... all the way up through the spell lists.

 

 

[Lephys]

Well, I like where you're going with stuff, for what it's worth. I would like to simply comment that I hope they keep the direct 1:1 ability emulations between classes to a minimum.

 

To clarify with an example, I don't mind Ciphers having Pyrokinetic abilities, but I don't want to see:

 

"Wizard Spell -- Fireball: Range, 20 // AoE, 7 // fire damage, 40 // burn damage, 5 per-sec for 7 secs.

The Wizard creates a compact sphere of fire that explodes upon impact and launches it at a foe or area.

 

Cipher Ability -- Mentolotov: Range, 20 // AoE, 7 // fire damage, 40 // burn damage, 5 per-sec for 7 secs.

The Cipher uses pyrokinesis to hyper-heat the air around a given foe or at a given location, causing a fiery explosion."

 

That is not to say, of course, that Pyrokinesis can NEVER do AoE fire damage, but I'd rather add some diversity into the "emulations." I want a Cipher's fiery abilities to do more/different (Ciphery) things than a Wizard's fiery (Wizardy) spells.

 

Simple, single-effect spells/abilities like Sleep or Stun/Daze are fine to basically copy. It would be the same thing, really, as creating fire. A ranger may create fire for his arrows with a flint and steel, and a Wizard may create fire via arcane energy, and a Cipher may create fire with mental soul powers *shrug*. It matters not. But it matters what they DO with that fire. You can't really "do" different things with Sleep or Stun (that affect the gameplay mechanically or situationally), so there's no problem with direct copies, really.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Lephys

[TRX850]

I would like to simply comment that I hope they keep the direct 1:1 ability emulations between classes to a minimum.

 

Absolutely. I see them behaving more like a Use Magic Device skill, in that they'd always be a few levels behind the class ability they were emulating.

 

And yes, more individual and nuanced effects would make the Cipher stand alone from any one class.

[Lephys]

^ *nod nod*. A different enough set of values might even work. Smaller AoE radius, shorter/longer range, less damage, less burn damage, etc... Not to mention, as we've both stated, a variation in effects. Maybe the Cipher's fiery explosion involves some sort of Will-save against an additional mind effect, and the Wizards has some other effect (armor reduction because the fire is so much more concentrated, etc.).

 

Variety is the spice of RPG design... Oh, and life. ^_^

[TRX850]

I don't know if it's assumed yet, but would the Cipher have to concentrate on ONE effect at a time? Maybe that's the main limiting factor? He/she has to focus their mind for the duration, or the effect is lost.

[rjshae]

Ciphers could be at a significant disadvantage against creatures that (nominally) don't have a mind: undead, oozes, and plants. (I'm not sure about elementals and other spirits.) I don't think that the other classes have a comparable limitation. Ciphers will need some capabilities to compensate for that liability: mind-over-matter powers would help, including TK, vibration, and molecular thermal control. The ability to phase shift and teleport about the battlefield would also be of value. Maybe ciphers can augment their weapon damage through mental exertion?

Edited January 27, 2013 by rjshae

[Lephys]

Mayhaps. Or maybe they could charge some abilities up (which is basically the exact same concept as channeling/focus duration, but before you use the ability rather than after) like I had suggested. But, maybe only one at a time? (You start charging a different ability, and the first is no longer readied, much less charged.) Anywho the balancing of that is beside the point. I only brought up that possibilty again because it would still constitute a very similar ability use (after charged/prepared) to a Wizard spell.

 

But, yeah, that would be a cool way to differentiate. Maybe it starts as single-target, and the target has to pass a Will save or he BELIEVES he is burning (some form of non-damage effect.) After several seconds, he actually catches ablaze (low burn damage/sec). After several more seconds, the damage increases and the fire flares outward (igniting anyone within a small AoE.) Several more seconds and it grows. Up to whatever ceiling is reasonable. *shrug*