Campfires

[TRX850]

As a follow up to the discussion on Resting, I was thinking about the kind of useful/optional activities a wilderness campfire might provide for your party.

 

These ideas are based on class skills and/or "Background Professions", which have been discussed in a few threads already. Campfire activities take place outside of cities, and are an abstract way of taking time to achieve a desired result. They also involve an element of pseudo-crafting that should save you money, compared to higher costs in a city.

 

Examples:

 

If you're a Ranger or have the Hunting Profession:

- Previously killed wild game = Raw meat + Campfire = Cooked meat = 10 hp Ration Pack

- Uncured Winter Wolf Pelt + Campfire + Successful Hunting check = Cured Winter Wolf Pelt = Increased resale value

 

If you're a Druid or have the Herbalist Profession:

- Misc. Forest Ingredients + Campfire + Successful Herbalist check = Antidotes / Herbal Remedies

 

If you're a Fighter or have the Bladesmith Profession:

- Dull/blunt weapon + Whetstone/Honing stone = Normal (sharp) weapon = Increased resale value

 

If you have the Historian Profession:

- Examine and identify certain special items combining the Lore skill. You may discover the actual (increased) resale value

 

If you have the Jeweller Profession:

- (Example only) 50gp gem + 10gp silver chain (or ring) + Campfire + Successful Jewellery check = 100gp silver necklace (or ring) = Increased resale value

- A Jewellers' Toolkit might contain a basic soldering iron, crimping pliers/pincers, tweezers etc.

 

If you have the Armourer Profession:

- Minor armour repairs at campfire, providing there was a mechanism for them to be damaged in the first place.

- Even plate armours have leather straps, buckles, and harnesses that can be repaired without a forge

- An Armourers' Toolkit might contain a small dishing hammer, riveting tool, leather punch etc.

- But you could only repair "poor" armour so it became "average" armour at campfires. You must go to a city to fully repair armour, via a forge or professional blacksmith, with an implied additional cost.

- Maybe allow different "states" of armour repair, which also relates to resale value.

-  75% - Good

-  50% - Average

-  25% - Poor

 

The long-term benefit of any profession is to make you money if you intend to create/repair and on-sell mundane items. The suggestions above are only one side to having Professions (the economical side). We need to consider other useful aspects that may affect quest outcomes too.

 

Would anyone use these options around a campfire if they wanted to rest in wilderness areas anyway?

Edited January 21, 2013 by TRX850

[Osvir]

I'm in favor of Campfires being "intermission" somewhat, where you manage your team, switch around gear, eat cooked "Food", do some minor crafting (adjusting resale price, great idea, but also perhaps doing maintenance on "Vendor Trash" to create minor components for upgrades). Maybe it could even be a "placeable" object to add immersion.

Likewise, I had this idea a couple of weeks back about Campfires costing "resources". If "Torches" are in the game, it'd make sense to pay the construction of a Campfire with Torches or pieces of wood (maybe for a higher difficulty?).

You also bring up a point on "Food":
* Food being mostly important on "Higher Difficulty"
* Food replenishing Stamina. Eating at "Camp" raises Morale and gains "Well Fed" status, comparably to eating an Apple on the field, eating food at an Inn or at Camp could give a temporary "Well Fed" for a duration of time. Perhaps you can only be "Well Fed" once a day, for a duration of 1 combat.

Resting and "Well Rested":
* Resting at Camp out in the wild too often could instead degenerate "Morale", forcing you to go to an "Inn" to get back all Morale as well as get a "Well Rested" status for a duration of time.
* Depending on where you rest your party might become pissed off or angry. Resting outside in a "Winter" area on a mountain might make your companions grumpy, and won't perform as well in combat due to "freezing my ass off"-effects.

But all of this is void because we got an Unlimited Stash to carry everything with us! So I could have 10'000 Torches. I forgot. Though, it all depends on how/where you access your Stash. Is the "Stash" in fact "Camp" and is the "Top of Pack" weight based?

Perchance there could be an option or at higher difficulty the "Unlimited Stash" is not "Unlimited", thus adding more strategy?

EDIT:

[stamina] Food (SF) instead of [Health] Potions (HP)?
Potions = Body/Mind/Spirit Enhancing Drugs?

Edited January 21, 2013 by Osvir

[TRX850]

I was trying to think of a way to combine concepts like Professions with Crafting and Economy and Resting, which are all valid and have been hotly discussed in the forums so far. Each concept comes with its own complexities, so it may take some time to fully realize just how well they might serve one another with all the synergy that adventuring choices provide.

 

Great point about party morale too.

 

Maybe campfires are needed to restore some of that old school roleplay feeling? Since it's likely you'll be spending a lot of your time in wilderness areas, perhaps we need something like this to break up the journey now and then? Maybe a place to level up too? Learn new spells in the wild, rather than mid-battle within a dungeon? I can hear people screaming already they'd prefer to level up on the fly. Maybe an option for a certain difficulty perhaps?

 

Whether you choose your background profession(s) purely at character creation, or build on them during game play, if you can't use those skills to "earn a living" by providing a few coins, then they're not being fully utilized IMO. And as I said, if there were other aspects to each profession that allowed for perks or quest options later on, then all the better.

[Osvir]

Perhaps just progressing the game gets you resources that you can use at "Camp" to upgrade and "level up" physically? You play for 10 minutes, Camp, use resources or whatnot, become stronger/better or whatever you've been doing up til this point. This would really require you to not being able to Camp "always". (Sleep for 6-10 hours with a 14-16 hour cooldown? In-game time, naturally. Could you sleep 2 hours to regain some Stamina, and then sleep the rest of the 4-8 hours later?). Similarly, with "Faction", "Career", "Way of Life", "Class" or "Profession", whichever you'd like to call it, you could grow in Class Level depending on which Faction you choose.

Faction = Objective Based Experience, Levels Up your Character/Class, Spiritually as a Person (Having more "Life" Experience).
Camp = Interactive experience, making your equipment better makes you in turn better.

If following a Faction is a "Career", and you start off as a City Guard before becoming a Soldier sent out to war (and deserting? nvm that for now..). Perhaps the Soldier knows or learns some techniques which allows him to make certain gear at "Camp" phase. Similarly, the Thief at the "Thieves Guild" might learn other crafts (This is what I'm trying to combine, ultimately: Crafting+Economy(Copper+Silver+Gold)+Profession+Faction+Class+Progression+Camp+Torches+Digging+World+Cities+AI/Monsters+Gods+Equipment+Food+Mortality+Stronghold  ).

I got 10 components -> Camp = Upgrade 2 things
I got 5 components -> Camp = Upgrade 1 thing

Components could be available by chapter-to-chapter, just like Objective based experience is, so Obsidian could have a really decent watch on where you're at in the game. Perhaps you've got 1 full plate early, but it cost all of your gathered components and the rest of your team is in "shoddy" armor. Or you could balance it out, give your entire team a progressive upgrade as you go along. Choose to upgrade one and save the other for later or not upgrade at all (e.g., the Wizard might not need much armor upgrade early game). Similarly, resources found in the fields serving different functions?

* Magically (Enchanting/Cursing)
* Crafting (Herbalism, "Maintanence"=Resale or Vendor Trash into Components?, Cooking, Gadgets etc.etc.)
* Physically (Armor/Weapons, Components)

Leveling up becomes... player based. You not only choose how to level up but when to level up. Some people might dislike this just cus I'm saying but w/e: Minecraft and Terraria is pretty much this. Your "camp" being the house you build (or rather, the "Crafting Table" you can bring with you).

When I mention "Minecraft" and/or "Terraria" in these kinds of discussions I am not talking about "Chopping down trees" or digging "Dirt". But the concept of how Minecraft's and Terraria's resource system works, they make a lot of sense in my opinion.

Minecraft -> Chop down tree -> Get resources -> Build House
Desire -> Chop down Bandit -> Get resources -> Upgrade Armor/Buy Items
Non-Lethal -> Pick pocket -> Get resources -> Buy Armor/Steal Items

A simplified form of the "Crafting"-game resource management in some ways.

Edited January 21, 2013 by Osvir

[JFSOCC]

interesting idea. But if you'd do this I'd enjoy some different benefits from different classes. Not just item(value) related ones.

[TRX850]

I wonder if each class could "train" other party members to perform minor cross-class feats? Something that builds slowly over time though. (Edit: using small percentages).

 

A fighter could eventually train a wizard to adopt a more defensive stance in combat? (+1 AC?) or the ability to use shields?

 

A wizard could eventually train a fighter to use low level wands? Magic Missile etc.

 

Could be tricky, but as Osvir mentioned, if there was some kind of incentive to only "camp" every so often rather than constantly, it could be applied in a (semi-)realistic way. So classes act as mentors within the party.

Edited January 21, 2013 by TRX850

[TRX850]

The thing about the item value increase shouldn't be understated. Professions, even in the modern sense, are a way of providing income.

 

In a medieval fantasy world, crafting, trading, and making a living through mundane means would be integral to the economy.

 

If you're a potter, jeweller, clothmaker, or blacksmith, your chosen profession is what makes you money.

 

If we can bring that concept into the regular sword-and-sorcery aspect of CRPGs, then it provides the party with options. While giving them "something to do", it's also feeding the economy and incentivizing them to improve and be innovative.

 

Note: It's not really the same as magical crafting though, which was handled differently in previous games. But now's the chance to take another look at that, and maybe combine the two, a little, maybe?

[Osvir]

I wonder if each class could "train" other party members to perform minor cross-class feats? Something that builds slowly over time though. (Edit: using small percentages).

 

that works extremely well with an idea on telling someone "I want you to gain experience towards this", before gaining any experience. In this way your, let's say Fighter, could in a sense say "Hey, Forton, I want to train you into a Fighter", and from henceforth Forton gets experience as if a Fighter, close combat aspects as well as "armor" oriented, gaining the benefits (naturally) by the other class, but still having all experience from being a Monk and can act as a Monk.

 

What would be the requirement? Having a Class that can teach the aspects of his or her own Class. A City Guard might not be able to teach Forton much, except patrolling the streets, whilst a Soldier could perhaps teach Forton the fundamentals of combat arms. It would still be "Forton's Path", so Forton would transform into his type of Fighter. The Point: if you don't have a Fighter in your party how are you going to teach anyone to be a Fighter? But if you do, it should not be restricted for anyone to be learned the ways of the Fighter. Kind of?

 

Dual-Classing in the IE games made no sense (or that D&D ruleset). Need it explained to me but the fact that, you are level 4 Fighter and choose to dual-class into Thief, you forget all the stuff you learned and have to gain level 4 Thief, makes it very unappealing.

 

Dual-Classing in that way no no.

 

A form of Multi-Classing perhaps?

 

Some statistic examples on the above:

Forton

Character Level: 5 

Monk Class: 4

Fighter Class: 1

 

What happened here was, Forton was a Monk up until level 4, but with a camp function (such as above) you manage your party at Camp and tell Forton "I want you to be a Fighter instead". From that point, Forton gains "Fighter"-levels, so when he becomes "Level 5" he gets 1 Fighter Perk. Or at the next camp session you can say "No go back to Monk", and in turn Forton would look like this.

 

Forton

Character Level: 6

Monk Class: 5

Fighter Class: 1

Edited January 21, 2013 by Osvir

[TRX850]

Huzzah!

 

Your example could work equally well with Aloth if you wanted to gain wizard levels. Just camp, and while others are sharpening their weapons, repairing armour, and making trinkets, Forton asks Aloth about that hefty, well-thumbed tome he's reading. And off you go from there.

 

Monk 4 / Wizard 1 and so on.

 

Edit:

 

Of course, the same options could be done in town at the local inn. But it would make sense to be able to learn new skills/abilities on the road if you spend enough time with your comrades.

Edited January 21, 2013 by TRX850

[rjshae]

Lots of good ideas here.

 

Camps can also be relevant for treating poison and disease. If camp rest is not sufficient then the sick character may need to be taken to an inn or hospice. A really serious case should motivate the party to visit a skilled healer.

 

Resting at Camp out in the wild too often could instead degenerate "Morale", forcing you to go to an "Inn" to get back all Morale as well as get a "Well Rested" status for a duration of time.

 

In the case of Wilderness Fatigue, this can be simply treated like a non-infectious disease that has a slow incubation period and moderate health effects, but which is extremely difficult to recover from without resting up at an inn. Possibly Rangers and Druids are virtually immune to this condition, but perhaps that's just a side-benefit of a 'Survival' skill.