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Hormalakh

Typing in riddle answers instead of choosing a dialogue option

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So?

I don't see how my speed typo has anything to do with anything.

 

Probably the fact that if someone who's espousing "everyone should know English" manages to fail at spelling things correctly then imagine playing the game as a non-native English speaker or someone who has dyslexia.

 

If my whole argument hinged on the assumption that people should be able to spell perfectly then I'd make damn sure I didn't spell things incorrectly while making said argument, but that's just me.

 

That is just you.

Who cares if you make a spelling mistake? I made mine because I wasn't paying attention. So what?

You can always correct it.

 

Apparently, people managed to play the old games just fine.

And btw - I'm not a native english speaker either.


* YOU ARE A WRONGULARITY FROM WHICH NO RIGHT CAN ESCAPE! *

Chuck Norris was wrong once - He thought HE made a mistake!

 

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Last I heard, P:E wasn't a text-adventure ZORK revival.

 

"What is the color of the sky?"

 

"blue"

 

"invalid response"

 

"Blue"

 

"invalid response"

 

"Blue."

 

"invalid response"

 

"Sky blue."

 

"invalid response"

 

"Sky Blue."

 

"You may pass."

Edited by AGX-17
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There have been games that have overcome this problem in the past. One game that comes to mind is the Might and Magic World of Xeen series. These games required you to type in words but the letters were given to you through clues that you had to search for in the dungeon, for exaample.

 

 

there was a dungeon where you were given six letters, I, C, A, D, P, R and were told to figure out the name.

there was a location with nine chests which had to be opened in order, with the letters T, K, P, C, F, I, O, R, H

There were several puzzles were you had the numbers, letters given to you simply by looking at the game map (spelling out "I am Sheltem" for example).

Another one was where several statues had codes on them "bo", "ry", "la", "to", "ra". And you were then asked "What did the dungeon used to be called?"

 

 

 

The clues can be given and then you type in the code. This forces the players to actually play through the content instead of metagaming answers through a multiple choice quiz.

 

Of course, there were then the really difficult ones that required a bit of thinking, but even those only had rewards that were non-story driven and just gave you experience.

 

obviously, the developers can also make the riddles case-insensitive and punctuation-insensitive.

Edited by Hormalakh

My blog is where I'm keeping a record of all of my suggestions and bug mentions.

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/  UPDATED 9/26/2014

My DXdiag:

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/2014/08/beta-begins-v257.html

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  1. Crossword-type minigame -> I've never actually seen this, but limiting word length and cross-referencing letter locations might work out

 

Once again I'd have to recommend World of Xeen. There is a Dungeon of Doom, as it's called, that has one whole level dedicated to a crossworld puzzle. It's really an interesting way of doing it. There is a fairly long story before you get started about the adventures of someone on the world of xeen, and several of the words are highlighted in green. Then when you go through the level, you see how long each word is based on the pacing and the clue is given at the beginning of each series of steps. When you type in the answer, always an answer from the highlighted words, the floor below you changes from shallow puddles to stone, informing you that the answer was correct. The extremely big dungeon level rewards you with experience and the opportunity to delve further in the dungeon. The whole dungeon was optional however, and I'm not sure if it was because of the "difficulty" of the crossword puzzle or because of development time running out. It is, nevertheless, highly regarded as one of the best puzzles for M&M:World of Xeen.


My blog is where I'm keeping a record of all of my suggestions and bug mentions.

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/  UPDATED 9/26/2014

My DXdiag:

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/2014/08/beta-begins-v257.html

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That is just you.

Who cares if you make a spelling mistake? I made mine because I wasn't paying attention. So what?

You can always correct it.

 

Apparently, people managed to play the old games just fine.

And btw - I'm not a native english speaker either.

 

So your assumption is what? That every other non native English speaker speaks as well as you do?

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There have been games that have overcome this problem in the past. One game that comes to mind is the Might and Magic World of Xeen series. These games required you to type in words but the letters were given to you through clues that you had to search for in the dungeon, for exaample.

 

 

there was a dungeon where you were given six letters, I, C, A, D, P, R and were told to figure out the name.

there was a location with nine chests which had to be opened in order, with the letters T, K, P, C, F, I, O, R, H

There were several puzzles were you had the numbers, letters given to you simply by looking at the game map (spelling out "I am Sheltem" for example).

Another one was where several statues had codes on them "bo", "ry", "la", "to", "ra". And you were then asked "What did the dungeon used to be called?"

 

 

 

The clues can be given and then you type in the code. This forces the players to actually play through the content instead of metagaming answers through a multiple choice quiz.

 

Of course, there were then the really difficult ones that required a bit of thinking, but even those only had rewards that were non-story driven and just gave you experience.

 

obviously, the developers can also make the riddles case-insensitive and punctuation-insensitive.

 

How is trial-and-error guessing from a list of options different from trial-and-error guessing from a series of letters or syllables? How is it metagaming?

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If I were to design a riddle where players had to type in their answers, I'd make sure to do two things:

 

1. Allow more than one possible way of writing it. "Wind", "The Wind", "A Breeze"... whatever comes to mind.

2. Instead of checking if it's the same word as one on my list, I'd simply check how many of the correct letters were used (and also how many letters were used in general).

 

The chance that someone accidentally finds the right solution is still pretty slim but the chance of not accepting the right answer because of typos is greatly reduced. Say your system accepts the answer if it has 50% of the correct letters in it and also isn't 50% too long or too short: If the solution is "Wind" or "Breeze" as above, the system would accept "dniw", "winnt", "briese"... I'd say even a dyslexic wouldn't normally write the word in a way that this system wouldn't understand it.

 

And I'm no programmer. I bet these people know all kinds of crazy algorithms to make sure the computer understands what you try to tell it without accidentally accepting a wrong answer.

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There have been games that have overcome this problem in the past. One game that comes to mind is the Might and Magic World of Xeen series. These games required you to type in words but the letters were given to you through clues that you had to search for in the dungeon, for exaample.

 

 

there was a dungeon where you were given six letters, I, C, A, D, P, R and were told to figure out the name.

there was a location with nine chests which had to be opened in order, with the letters T, K, P, C, F, I, O, R, H

There were several puzzles were you had the numbers, letters given to you simply by looking at the game map (spelling out "I am Sheltem" for example).

Another one was where several statues had codes on them "bo", "ry", "la", "to", "ra". And you were then asked "What did the dungeon used to be called?"

 

 

 

The clues can be given and then you type in the code. This forces the players to actually play through the content instead of metagaming answers through a multiple choice quiz.

 

Of course, there were then the really difficult ones that required a bit of thinking, but even those only had rewards that were non-story driven and just gave you experience.

 

obviously, the developers can also make the riddles case-insensitive and punctuation-insensitive.

 

How is trial-and-error guessing from a list of options different from trial-and-error guessing from a series of letters or syllables? How is it metagaming?

 

Trial and error guessing from a list of options already tells you all the information you require. It gives you all the options possible and severely limits the options for the player. You aren't really guessing/metagaming from a series of letters unless you're absolutely sure you have all the information. For the LABORATORY example, if you hadn't found the BO clue, you might still be able to figure out LABORATORY with the incomplete information. Or maybe you're not sure if its LABORATORY or LAVATORY since you're not sure if a BORA or a VA exists or not.There is still a challenge involved there of trying to solve puzzles without having all the clues in front of you.

 

The other aspect is that these typed-in puzzles can act as in-game obstacles for developers to help maintain some sort of path for players without forcing it upon them. If you've found the clues in the universe to help you solve the puzzle, then you may proceed to the next section of the game. But if you are able to guess the answer (or if you are replaying the game and don't wish to repeat certain portions of the game world) then you can by-pass this obstacle. You do not have this option with a multiple choice riddle because the answers are limited and thus such riddles can only act as extremely weak/low obstacles for the player.

 

You can also always have riddles with limited or no clues (all the letters aren't given to you) that further challenge the players. Perhaps these riddles might be included for rare items or experience, but I doubt that most players would want them on plot-driven aspects of the game.

Edited by Hormalakh
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My blog is where I'm keeping a record of all of my suggestions and bug mentions.

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/  UPDATED 9/26/2014

My DXdiag:

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/2014/08/beta-begins-v257.html

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I did want to point out an observation that I've had about this.

 

In older games, where the obstacle to finding the answer to these questions was extremely high (there was no internet and hints were only found through expensive phone calls or limited strategy guides), developers continued to utilize such puzzles/riddles for their audiences, without much furor. However, now with the unlimited supply of solutions and strategy guides available at the touch of a mouse button through the internet, suddenly the furor has increased? For the players who don't like such puzzles, the answers can be quickly found online and they do not limit their gameplay. Whereas for players who would rather solve such puzzles without the hints given by a multiple choice, they/we do not have such an option.

 

It seems a little backwards to me. If you get frustrated by the puzzle and want to just move on, look up the solution online. If you want the challenge, it's there for you. Even I, from time to time, don't really feel like solving word puzzles, and I'll just look up the answer online to bypass a specific puzzle. I guess there are more elegant ways to give players "hints" but I don't find it to be too big of an issue when I can't solve the puzzle.

Edited by Hormalakh

My blog is where I'm keeping a record of all of my suggestions and bug mentions.

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/  UPDATED 9/26/2014

My DXdiag:

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/2014/08/beta-begins-v257.html

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I think an easy way to solve it, and have the best of both worlds, is to have a system where the answer is different each playthrough. But instead of the puzzle being mathematical or a word jumble, (which is essentially a player's own skill check, rather than a character skill check), make the answer a collection of symbols or icons gathered from a series of challenges, including a tome that you find which translates the symbols into letters.

 

So the player still has to complete a series of challenges to find a dynamically generated answer that is highly unlikely to be the same as the previous time, and hence, not something that is definitive in a walkthrough.

 

So there are no "short cuts" as such, and you don't frustrate the player either.


Me? I'm dishonest, and a dishonest man you can always trust to be dishonest. Honestly. It's the honest ones you want to watch out for.

 

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I think an easy way to solve it, and have the best of both worlds, is to have a system where the answer is different each playthrough. But instead of the puzzle being mathematical or a word jumble, (which is essentially a player's own skill check, rather than a character skill check), make the answer a collection of symbols or icons gathered from a series of challenges, including a tome that you find which translates the symbols into letters.

 

So the player still has to complete a series of challenges to find a dynamically generated answer that is highly unlikely to be the same as the previous time, and hence, not something that is definitive in a walkthrough.

 

So there are no "short cuts" as such, and you don't frustrate the player either.

 

Is there a puzzle involved? Or is this meant to play more like a fetch quest where you just have to find all the information and cannot solve the puzzle without actually finding all the information?

 

I don't think there is a problem with certain puzzles having to involve the player rather than the characters. I have mentioned in the past that intelligence limiting the characters should play a role, etc. But I'm not sure how important that should really be. Most parties will have at least one character that will have a high intelligence (playing a mage) or a high luck regardless of whether these attributes are even considered (will luck even be an attribute?). We don't have to LARP our computer characters in everything that they do.


My blog is where I'm keeping a record of all of my suggestions and bug mentions.

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/  UPDATED 9/26/2014

My DXdiag:

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/2014/08/beta-begins-v257.html

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I just mean that once you have all the symbols translated into letters, they make up a word that you could then type in. It may be that you still have to arrange the letters into an actual word, as per your previous example, and this would constitute utilizing a player's intelligence, sure. I have no problem with that. I think it comes down to how you find the separate "ingredients" that make up the puzzle. That's the real question. Is it a fetch quest, or some other method to acquire the information in distinct pieces before you can bring them all together to answer the puzzle? I think also, "puzzle" and "riddle" can be quite different. If you were asked to answer a riddle (which was a different riddle each playthrough) it could still imply you had to "go off and do something" to find clues to that riddle before answering.

Edited by TRX850

Me? I'm dishonest, and a dishonest man you can always trust to be dishonest. Honestly. It's the honest ones you want to watch out for.

 

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