Magically Spawning Guards (when games cheat)

[Hypevosa]

Your rogue sneakily enters an unguarded house in the dead of night, pickpockets a drawer next to a sleeping patron and opens it. Ruffling through all the goodies inside, the person sleeping on the bed awakens and calls out for help. Somehow, despite closed windows and doors, and despite there being no guard on the street for 2 blocks, a guard magically appears at the entrance to confront you. Upon initiating a fight, suddenly 5 more appear.

 

Something I think I'd appreciate in P.E. is, aside from summons or other magical means, I don't feel enemies should spontaneously spawn anywhere. I'd also appreciate it if information traveled in a believable manner - for example, instead of having guards who are super man and can hear a cry for help from miles away and instantly travel at the speed of sound to the location of trouble, have guards who only hear things within earshot. I'd much rather see someone whose house is getting robbed run out the door for dear life yelling for help till they got to the guard station or found some guards to help.

 

Instead of a failed pickpocket resulting in a save and reload, don't ever tell us if it's a success or a failure. Simply have some people be a little more subtle... since you're clearly too much for them, have them simply walk to the nearest guards or guard station and report it. Some will turn to let you know you've been spotted and confront you, return it or pay the consequences (be it them fighting you or friends). Have some illicit all the NPCs in proximity to mob you and your party "Hey, this guy stole my coins!". A little diversity in the reaction to being robbed would be nice.

Edited October 7, 2012 by Hypevosa

[Neversleep]

I couldn't agree with your post more! But I would also extend this to combat in general.

 

In Dragon Age 2 the enemies spawning from every direction during a battle was particularly annoying as it largely nullifies any value around strategic party formations. You also have no idea how many waves of spawns a battle will entail and so no idea whether you are walking into a minor or major confrontation

 

Apart from the tactical implications it also disrupts my sense of immersion - it doesn't make sense for enemies to appear out of nowhere unless such enemies are actually capable of invisibility/sneak or teleportation.

 

I'm not too worried about this though - Obsidian have clearly stated that party formations will be featured in the game and that the game will be very close to the infinity engine games (which didn't "feature" random mob spawns) so I think it's a safe bet this won't be a problem

[Gfted1]

Wouldnt a failed pickpocket be evident by the fact that you didnt get anything off the person? Or are you saying it would be played off as if the target of the pickpocket didnt have anything on them to steal?

[Hypevosa]

@Gfted1 - that's a good point. I feel that pickpockets should have multiple ways of failing. Sometimes you simply can't pick the item without being noticed and don't bother (a wiser rogue should get this result), sometimes the person who you picked it from saw you do it which is also a failure.

 

@Neversleep- Yes, I meant believable flow of information to be part of that. For example, in baldur's gate if you killed someone in the street, everyone on the whole map was suddenly and inexplicably hostile towards you as if they all KNEW what had happened. Even if a scream was heard, or the explosion from a fireball, people should have to come and investigate if they want to know what happened, perhaps even ask you if you're there and a high enough charisma check with some luck or the other person being an idiot would result in them believing you, or people could just go about their business like many would. Perhaps a mage could have a spell trigger on their death that let everyone around know who killed them and have the urge to seek vengeance for them (ooooo curses are good stuff) but aside from that, I don't like omniscient AI.

 

Having the ability to sneakily invade a fortress, where using a spell or a bomb that was loud like fireball or something would let people know what was up but otherwise quietly dispatching guards and scouts (before they got back to inform superiors) of what was going on, would be a nice thing.

Edited October 7, 2012 by Hypevosa

[NerdBoner]

I never played DA2 but from the videos of the combat I saw I could swear everyone in Kirkwall was a bandit assassin and that by the end of the game you had killed them all...everyone.in.the.city.

 

 

combat needs to be harder, more meaningful (ie actual motives for enemies to attack, not just me walking around) and less centered on mobs of nameless fodder.

 

the only time i want to fight legions of guys is when i'm facing off against a tribe of lunatics or against an army like Yaga Shura's (at high levels of course)

 

I don't want every criminal in the city to try and kill me for no reason...(can they at least ASK for my coin purse before they try?)

[Hypevosa]

I loved how everyone who wasn't specialized in dragon age defaulted to rogue... it makes sense though - if you're untrained you'd likely have a small weapon (dagger) and use dirty tactics to fight anyone (kick in the shins, thow dust in eyes, etc).

[Vandoon]

I really like these ideas and would love to see them. Failures can also be from other people seeing the action. They can run and inform the authorities or charge in and attack. Call for assistance as they attack and others join or run as their character dictates. If you are seen stealing you can out run the authorities however your image can be posted as wanted at a variety of levels starting from "Wanted for questioning" if someone was at a distance through to bounties on your head if they got a good look or you dropped evidence. What about the ability for mages to speak to the dead and ID the killer. If they judge your act was unjustified a warrant can be issued and will spread through the world. I can end at county boarders or kingdoms. If your crime was really bad bounty hunters could pursue you. You should have options to destroy bodies to allow evil PCs to play as they wish however if they wipe out a village it should take time to clean the scene if they dont want the next traveler that comes into town to bolt for the capital and call in the investigators (or when they do they have difficulty proving it was you).

 

If you continually do these acts (especially if you do it the same way each time) people build a picture of the possible person or persons and if you have been seen at all instances either a rumour can form.

 

 

 

If you delay or side track along trade paths these rumours or warants can over take you. If the situation warants it a kings messenger can be dispatch and ride fast taking word of the incident.

 

Warrant may no cross boarders but merchants and runour will and give the local a head start in identifying you or outright chase you from twon (or worse)

[RiceMunk]

Maybe my standards have been lowered too much by recent games but as long as there's no ridiculous DA2-like bandit rain, I'll be content.

 

Because eff you, bandit rain.

[Shades]

Actually, it would be quite neat if you had guards that patrolled towns, cities or whatever. And as mentioned if the NPC ran out of the house in the direction of the nearest guard... Or perhaps just towards the guard station (since they have no way of knowing where the patrolling guards are) and patrolling guards nearby will move towards them because they heard the yelling. Maybe cities would have a number of guards patrolling, while a small village may just have one. And depending on his enthusiasm he may just be sitting around or dozing.

 

I like the idea of having a variety of reactions too.

 

And jumping off the idea of a profile of you being built up if you commit crimes, perhaps there could also be a profile built up of someone else committing a crime that they happen to think you match (say you've been in a number of the areas specific to these crimes). So you have to prove that you didn't do it (and probably find out who did along the way). And maybe when authorities are after you when you have done something, you can plant evidence, frame other people, bribe or trick others into being in places that will make them or someone else appear to be guilty of the crime. Might end up a bit complicated though.

[rjshae]

Actually, it would be quite neat if you had guards that patrolled towns, cities or whatever. And as mentioned if the NPC ran out of the house in the direction of the nearest guard... Or perhaps just towards the guard station (since they have no way of knowing where the patrolling guards are) and patrolling guards nearby will move towards them because they heard the yelling. Maybe cities would have a number of guards patrolling, while a small village may just have one. And depending on his enthusiasm he may just be sitting around or dozing.

 

This is similar to how it worked in Oblivion. If you sneaked into a house and a patrolling guard heard you, he entered the house and confronted you. But that works because it's all one contiguous area.

[Hypevosa]

Patrolling guards would be nice - having guards intelligent enough to recognize and profile targets whose equipment is clearly roguish in nature might be cool as well... because, you know the guy in all black leather with a hood obscuring his face is totally not likely to rob someone xD

[Bloody Hypocrite]

Hypevosa,

I love the idea of being able to try to bs or intimidate your way out of a confrontation if you fail a skill check. I always thought it was stupid that some random peasant would go hostile and start attacking the town heroes or the most dangerous people that they had even seen if they caught you with your hand in their pocket. Personally, I'd love an option to pretend that I was just making a pass at them. It could make for some fun dialogue.

edit: basic grammar.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Bloody Hypocrite

[Hypevosa]

Thanks, I know I've always appreciated such depth in my games. While I understand it's simpler and easier to just have everyone react the same way, I think the depth that having multiple personalities in the game would lend would make it that much more awesome.

[rjshae]

Wouldnt a failed pickpocket be evident by the fact that you didnt get anything off the person? Or are you saying it would be played off as if the target of the pickpocket didnt have anything on them to steal?

 

Link ball. Useful in Geoff's Cantrip of Coat Tail Cleansing.