Dynamic music and its issues

[Dectilon]

For a long time now dynamic music has been a part of the genre. By dynamic music I mean music that shifts on the fly as the situation changes, so there could be one track for when walking in a forest, and another that starts if you encounter enemies.

 

Personally I've always found the transition to be terribly grating. Having the music become incredibly dramatic just because you walked too close to a undernourished wolf, only to have it end three seconds later as you swat it away like a fly, doesn't work very well. Even in a slightly more extended battle, say against some bandits, I feel like the music often overemphasizes the threat. It's not the same type of game, but I feel like the Heroes of Might and Magic-series often found the right balance. For example, this theme from HOMM3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0ObS62Js-4

manages to convey a dramatic battle without sounding like you're now fighting for the fate of the world like this track kinda does

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shGBqcpWfCQ&feature=relmfu

 

Ultimately, my point is that I think it'd be nice to have a catch-all theme tied to an area to lend the area itself personality rather than switch between two discordant tracks just because a small battle breaks out. And also to not always go to themes in minor. I mean, I loved NWN2, but I think it could've used a few more tracks in major. (I hope I'm using minor and major correctly. English isn't my first language)

[Starwars]

Excellent point about the NWN2 track, that always bothered me as well.

 

But my personal pet peeves is with combat-music in top-down games, in that they often... I dunno, they try to get the adrenaline pumping the same way an action-movie does. It's always big percussion, and dramatic melodies (even moreso with orchestras involved). I personally think that composing music for a top-down game should be a bit different because the truth is... I don't feel adrenaline in the same way as I do when I play Bulletstorm or whatever. Sure a battle can certainly be tense but it's in a different way. And it'd be nice to have the music reflect that for once. Hell, one of the things I loved in the original Fallouts was that... music didn't change just because you entered battle. And it worked because that music was much more about having a background "soundscape" rather than heavy melodies.

 

I mean, I think "epic" music can be appropiate for big boss battles or whatnot. But please... restraint is the key sometimes. Subtlety.

 

One of my favorite boss-battle (the end boss even) pieces of music is the one for Mask of the Betrayer which was *just* percussion.

 

New Vegas also had some interesting ideas in how the music layered itself upon itself so to speak. But even then there was a very clear distinction when battle started. I personally don't think it's really necessary, and many times it feels incredibly artificial. As the OP says, having combat music start up when fighting a rat, only to have it end 5 seconds later when you kill it feels incredibly... silly and downright annoying in that it often disrupts the atmosphere.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Starwars

[Justin Bell]

I mean, I think "epic" music can be appropiate for big boss battles or whatnot. But please... restraint is the key sometimes. Subtlety.

 

Interesting anecdote... I once saw a video someone posted on youtube of someone playing through the Skeleton King's crypt in Dungeon Siege 3. In the video you see the player fighting skeleton hoards as the Skeleton King taunts you. Except this person had muted the in-game music, which was very moody and dark, and superimposed that with the startup screen music which was beautiful, melodic, and haunting. And it worked very well. On the surface you would look at the context and say "Sure! That needs dark music!", but I guess that video proved (to me at least) that this isn't always necessarily the case.

 

Kind of relates back to this post I made a while back: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60342-project-eternity-composer-in-house-or-external/page__st__100#entry1202767

 

Basically, what I'm saying is yeah I agree that this sort of thing can interfere with the suspension of disbelief while playing a game. It's something we're going to work hard to perfect, because we want to reflect changes in gameplay, but not in such an obvious way. There are, as you guys suggest, subtler ways than switching between layer a and layer b.

[Zeckul]

In the Infinity Engine games, the dynamic music system sometimes lead to almost comedic effect, when you had to fight a squirrel and this absurdly epic battle music would play. It would also get terribly annoying after a while.

 

Personally I think a good amount of silence adds a lot to a game, if the ambient sounds are well done. Having music constantly playing inevitably leads to listener fatigue, whereas a theme that plays now and then adds to the atmosphere and lets itself be desired.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Zeckul

[Justin Bell]

You know what game does this surprisingly well? Kingdoms of Amalur. I just started playing it and I'm more impressed by it than I thought I would be. One thing I noticed was the silence. Music comes and goes, but its far from being wall papered on. Plus its very well written and a pleasure to listen to.

 

Kotaku wrote an article about New Vegas' music that somewhat relates: http://kotaku.com/58...r-without-music

 

I think a lot of this, just like the DS3 example, is that this whole music thing really comes down to personal taste.

[Emeraude]

I mean, I think "epic" music can be appropiate for big boss battles or whatnot. But please... restraint is the key sometimes. Subtlety.

 

Interesting anecdote... I once saw a video someone posted on youtube of someone playing through the Skeleton King's crypt in Dungeon Siege 3. In the video you see the player fighting skeleton hoards as the Skeleton King taunts you. Except this person had muted the in-game music, which was very moody and dark, and superimposed that with the startup screen music which was beautiful, melodic, and haunting. And it worked very well. On the surface you would look at the context and say "Sure! That needs dark music!", but I guess that video proved (to me at least) that this isn't always necessarily the case.

 

Kind of relates back to this post I made a while back: http://forums.obsidi...00#entry1202767

 

Basically, what I'm saying is yeah I agree that this sort of thing can interfere with the suspension of disbelief while playing a game. It's something we're going to work hard to perfect, because we want to reflect changes in gameplay, but not in such an obvious way. There are, as you guys suggest, subtler ways than switching between layer a and layer b.

 

A current, I dare not say mistake, let's say problem, often encountered in movie soundtrack, where the musician tries to always underline the scene/effect/moment instead of trying to act as a counterpoint adding density and layering to the information imparted to the audience.I'm reminded of Sylvain Chauveau, who was asked to remake the whole score for Des Plumes dans la Tête from scratch because his first version, which imparted the same emotion as the one seen on screen, was deemed redundant and inelegant by the director, even if beautiful on its own.

[Justin Bell]

Redundant. That is a great way of putting it!

[Aedelric]

Dynamic music switching can be greatly jarring, listening to casual melodic music then suddenly things get epic and you are attacked by a... rat.

 

That said it does work well in some cases, like when a dragon suddenly swoops down on you in Skyrim and it plays that epic track, you know the one I mean.

 

The kind of music should depend on the situation without too much sudden change, another bad thing is drowning a game in music. I never played Kingdoms of Amalur, but your description of how they do it sounds good Justin.