Director Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Then what did we even pledge for? If they want to reach that "big large audience" they could just have gone for Fallout 4: The Elder Scrollsening. We pledged because we thought they are reaching out to us- the oldschool RPG fans. The more concessions are made to this "new generation" of gamers the worse the game will be. Period. There is massive difference between the sales of Fallout 4: The Elder Scrollsening, (I really hope that is the working title of Fallout 4, btw), and what Obsidian hope and dream for this game. Fallout 4: The Elder Scrollsening - will sell millions of copies, hell - I know I'll buy it. Obsidian will still want to sell over a hundred thousand copies of P:E though, (and hopefully a lot more). If you don't think that's the intent - your delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogrezilla Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Then what did we even pledge for? If they want to reach that "big large audience" they could just have gone for Fallout 4: The Elder Scrollsening. We pledged because we thought they are reaching out to us- the oldschool RPG fans. The more concessions are made to this "new generation" of gamers the worse the game will be. Period. There is massive difference between the sales of Fallout 4: The Elder Scrollsening, (I really hope that is the working title of Fallout 4, btw), and what Obsidian hope and dream for this game. Fallout 4: The Elder Scrollsening - will sell millions of copies, hell - I know I'll buy it. Obsidian will still want to sell over a hundred thousand copies of P:E though, (and hopefully a lot more). If you don't think that's the intent - your delusional. indeed. they are a business. they want it to sell. that way they can make more games like this and those can also sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosesandAshes Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 It's totally a niche title, but in NO WAY are they gonna limit themselves to the 50K Kickstarter backers. Not to mention that some of those Kickstarter backers (like, let's see, me) just want to play the game on Normal difficulty and couldn't care less about the hardcore modes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Director Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 I actually disagree with that last bit. Too many games these days are designed with what used to be easy mode as the normal mode. Not only that, the general mechanics are largely dumbed down or streamlined to make them less complicated which typically means shallower. Then if there is a hard mode, they usually just bump up enemy hp or damage and call it a day. That is the problem I have with a lot of modern games. I agree - but so what? Obsidian have already agreed to go over and above on the hard mode, (if you suckers can raise 2.3 mil ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GammaHamster Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) There is massive difference between the sales of Fallout 4: The Elder Scrollsening, (I really hope that is the working title of Fallout 4, btw), and what Obsidian hope and dream for this game. Yes, and that difference exists exactly because Obsidian does not hope to sell PE to every girlfriens and game-hating brother. Edited September 28, 2012 by GammaHamster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metiman Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Thats exactly why we are pledging money for this Kickstarter, so that the company will have no need to sell the game to your GF. You do realise that Obsidian intend to actually sell this game - correct? And make a sequel, (hopefully)? They are hoping to reach an audience much larger than just the people who kickstart it. Yes, but not by pandering. If more people like and buy the game I'm sure they will be very happy, but from what I have read in interviews making as much money as possible is not the main point of this project. Making a genuinely good game with complete freedom and no restrictions other than budget is the point. If they wanted a profit maximizing project they would make a Dragon Age or Skyrim or even WoW sort of game like everyone else is doing. Greed (and bad taste on the part of gamers) has utterly decimated cRPGs. JoshSawyer: Listening to feedback from the fans has helped us realize that people can be pretty polarized on what they want, even among a group of people ostensibly united by a love of the same games. For us, that means prioritizing options is important. If people don’t like a certain aspect of how skill checks are presented or how combat works, we should give them the ability to turn that off, resources permitting. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogrezilla Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) I actually disagree with that last bit. Too many games these days are designed with what used to be easy mode as the normal mode. Not only that, the general mechanics are largely dumbed down or streamlined to make them less complicated which typically means shallower. Then if there is a hard mode, they usually just bump up enemy hp or damage and call it a day. That is the problem I have with a lot of modern games. I agree - but so what? Obsidian have already agreed to go over and above on the hard mode, (if you suckers can raise 2.3 mil ) I really don't know what my point was there haha There is massive difference between the sales of Fallout 4: The Elder Scrollsening, (I really hope that is the working title of Fallout 4, btw), and what Obsidian hope and dream for this game. Yes, and that difference exists exactly because Obsidian does not hope to sell PE to every girlfriens and game-hating brother. Obsidian would love nothing more than to get girlfriends and game-hating brothers to buy this type of game. I'm sure a part of this project is them taking a chance to see if they can get some of the newer generation of gamers to try out an older style of game and hopefully have them enjoy it. Edited September 28, 2012 by ogrezilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GammaHamster Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) Apparently some people donated because they want to help Obsidian become a buisness like EA and get over with this silly Kickstarter thing as soon as possible. I don't even... Edited September 28, 2012 by GammaHamster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogrezilla Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) Apparently some people donated because they want to help Obsidian become a buisness like EA and get over with this silly Kickstarter thing as soon as possible. I don't even... what? I want Obsidian to help bring classic style gaming to a newer audience. I don't want them to pander to them. That seems to be exactly what they are doing. I want games that people like you and I enjoy to become the type of game lots of people enjoy. Then there will be more of them. Edited September 28, 2012 by ogrezilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Director Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Yes, but not by pandering. If more people like and buy the game I'm sure they will be very happy, but from what I have read in interviews making as much money as possible is not the main point of this project. Making a genuinely good game with complete freedom and no restrictions other than budget is the point. If they wanted a profit maximizing project they would make a Dragon Age or Skyrim or even WoW sort of game like everyone else is doing. Greed (and bad taste on the part of gamers) has utterly decimated cRPGs. Cool - but I'm unable to agree that having an "easy" mode, such as BG1,BG2 and countless other cRPGs had is "pandering". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GammaHamster Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) Apparently some people donated because they want to help Obsidian become a buisness like EA and get over with this silly Kickstarter thing as soon as possible. I don't even... what? I want Obsidian to help bring classic style gaming to a newer audience. I don't want them to pander to them. That seems to be exactly what they are doing. I want games that people like you and I enjoy to become the type of game lots of people enjoy. "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions" © Then there will be more of them. I keep hearing this since yearly 00s. Still waiting a decade after. Edited September 28, 2012 by GammaHamster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogrezilla Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Apparently some people donated because they want to help Obsidian become a buisness like EA and get over with this silly Kickstarter thing as soon as possible. I don't even... what? I want Obsidian to help bring classic style gaming to a newer audience. I don't want them to pander to them. That seems to be exactly what they are doing. I want games that people like you and I enjoy to become the type of game lots of people enjoy. "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions" © Then there will be more of them. I keep hearing this since yearly 00s. Still waiting a decade after. hey its worth a shot. when was the last game like this released? I at least want it to be successful enough for Obsidian to be able to keep making them even if its just them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Director Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Apparently some people donated because they want to help Obsidian become a buisness like EA and get over with this silly Kickstarter thing as soon as possible. I don't even... I backed because it's the closest to a sequel to Planescape:Torment, that I'm likely to ever see. Your reason for backing is different. 50,000 backers = 50,000 reasons. Additionally - Obsidian is a business, I fail to see why wanting them to be successful is a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metiman Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Actually if this project is succesful enough you may actually see a genuine 100% sequel-in-spirit to PS:T in your lifetime. MCA has been talking about the idea even back on the Interplay forums. He has always said that he would love to do one and based on interviews this project does not seem to be it. Well, except for the partial sense in which MotB was as well. JoshSawyer: Listening to feedback from the fans has helped us realize that people can be pretty polarized on what they want, even among a group of people ostensibly united by a love of the same games. For us, that means prioritizing options is important. If people don’t like a certain aspect of how skill checks are presented or how combat works, we should give them the ability to turn that off, resources permitting. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Director Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) Actually if this project is succesful enough you may actually see a genuine 100% sequel-in-spirit to PS:T in your lifetime. MCA has been talking about the idea even back on the Interplay forums. He has always said that he would love to do one and based on interviews this project does not seem to be it. Well, except for the partial sense in which MotB was as well. The licensing would be a complete nightmare, and I don't think that WoTC even support Planescape anymore, (and therefore probably wouldn't allow a game in that setting). Even if they could arrange the licensing - the costs and restrictions that WoTC would impose, would probably ruin the game. (Too much - in a word - pandering). Oh - unless you meant a "unofficial" "In Spirit Of" - in which case, yeah sure - I'd back that as well, but let's not count that chicken. Edited September 28, 2012 by Director Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metiman Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) I did say "in-spirit". After reading the penny arcade interview with TIm Cain this may be more of a sequel-in-spirit than I was thinking. It sounds like there are going to be immortal characters with many lives. Edited September 28, 2012 by metiman 1 JoshSawyer: Listening to feedback from the fans has helped us realize that people can be pretty polarized on what they want, even among a group of people ostensibly united by a love of the same games. For us, that means prioritizing options is important. If people don’t like a certain aspect of how skill checks are presented or how combat works, we should give them the ability to turn that off, resources permitting. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimlorn Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) Iron man/Hardcore waste of money? You take that back. Easy mode wastes resources too. Who cares what your GF and others like her want? She doesn't sound that smart anyways. The game is being funded by players who want to see an old school RPG. They don't need to sell it to a mainstream audience. But I think it will still sell well because all people can talk about when it comes to RPGs is the older RPGs. You're not going to ever hear people talk about DA2 like that. Bioware and Bethesda will never create a truly good or classic RPG ever again. They're too focused on corporate profits and appealing to everyone. That's why their RPGs tend to be pretty bad these days. I don't care if Skyrim did 10 million copies. It was mainstream crap. Yeah - the game is being Kickstarted, because it's never gonna get backed by a publisher - that doesn't mean that Obsidian don't hope to sell 500K copies of it. It's totally a niche title, but in NO WAY are they gonna limit themselves to the 50K Kickstarter backers. Now as for "Easy Mode" - there is NO WAY that the game won't have an Easy setting. You know it - I know it. The only thing that weird is that you have some kind of issue with it being there. There's a reason there is no stretch goal for "Easy" or "Normal" difficulties - because every game has them. No I have no issue with the Easy difficulty. The only reason this discussion rages on is because people come off wanting it easier than that. If they wanted to just make high selling games, they would just take the first contract they could get for an action RPG that a publisher would happily fund. This is about making a great, old school RPG in their vision. Edited September 28, 2012 by Grimlorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwinkieGorilla Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) Everyone except the company that wants to sell the game to my GF, or a sequel to that game. Yes and that company's name is Bioware or Bethesda. I'm pretty sure Obsidian would prefer to sell to serious gamers not people who turn to The Sims when a game gets too...gamey. I could care less for all these Iron Man / Hardcore modes Funny that. Since most of the old-schoolers (you know, the target audience?) do which is probably why these were included as a stretch goal instead of "Sims-preferring girlfriend mode". Obsidian would love nothing more than to get girlfriends and game-hating brothers to buy this type of game. Oh really? See, and here I thought this is actually the EXACT OPPOSITE type of game Obsidian would love nothing more to make. Since, you know, the whole sell was "a return to classic IE games" and not "Yet another cinematic, next-gen, mash the 'awesome!' button in order to win" type game. Edited September 28, 2012 by TwinkieGorilla 1 hopw roewur ne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogrezilla Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) Obsidian would love nothing more than to get girlfriends and game-hating brothers to buy this type of game. Oh really? See, and here I thought this is actually the EXACT OPPOSITE type of game Obsidian would love nothing more to make. Since, you know, the whole sell was "a return to classic IE games" and not "Yet another cinematic, next-gen, mash the 'awesome!' button in order to win" type game. I think you misunderstood me. They would love if girlfriends and the like became fans of the type of game this is meant to be. They want classic style RPGs to become popular. They are in the business of making money and they are good at and seem to enjoy making classic style RPGs. Nobody who is in the business of making money wants to only serve a niche market. That doesn't mean they will change the type of game they make to pander to a wider market, but there is no way Obsidian doesn't want as many people as possible to enjoy the game they do make. The ideal outcome of this game isn't for it to sell to only hardcore RPG fans. The ideal outcome is for this game to appeal to RPG fans while also being a commercial success. Thus, creating new RPG fans and proving that this type of game is financially viable. But if this game is not a at least a moderate success commercially, then this will likely be a one time thing. Edited September 28, 2012 by ogrezilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Ador Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 I think you misunderstood me. They would love if girlfriends and the like became fans of the type of game this is meant to be. They want classic style RPGs to become popular. They are in the business of making money and they are good at and seem to enjoy making classic style RPGs. Nobody who is in the business of making money wants to only serve a niche market. That doesn't mean they will change the type of game they make to pander to a wider market, but there is no way Obsidian doesn't want as many people as possible to enjoy the game they do make. The ideal outcome of this game isn't for it to sell to only hardcore RPG fans. The ideal outcome is for this game to appeal to RPG fans while also being a commercial success. Thus, creating new RPG fans and proving that this type of game is financially viable. But if this game is not a at least a moderate success commercially, then this will likely be a one time thing. Finally someone who has some understanding of the way business and companies work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenshrike Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 I'm not very good at tactical combat, but I can get through [...] PS:T on Easy with a bit of patience. Killed me. ...but, to answer your question - in one of the updates I believe it have been said, that you will be able to get through the game even without some, or any, party members. So your easy would't probably be less easy than regular Infinity Easy. Unless they completely FUBAR things up, it will probably be significantly easier, as a large part of the difficulty was poor control schemes and the fact that 2nd ed did not translate to computer well at all. Also, I continue to maintain THAC0 should die in a fire. "You know, there's more to being an evil despot than getting cake whenever you want it" "If that's what you think, you're DOING IT WRONG." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curryinahurry Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 I think you misunderstood me. They would love if girlfriends and the like became fans of the type of game this is meant to be. They want classic style RPGs to become popular. They are in the business of making money and they are good at and seem to enjoy making classic style RPGs. Nobody who is in the business of making money wants to only serve a niche market. That doesn't mean they will change the type of game they make to pander to a wider market, but there is no way Obsidian doesn't want as many people as possible to enjoy the game they do make. The ideal outcome of this game isn't for it to sell to only hardcore RPG fans. The ideal outcome is for this game to appeal to RPG fans while also being a commercial success. Thus, creating new RPG fans and proving that this type of game is financially viable. But if this game is not a at least a moderate success commercially, then this will likely be a one time thing. Finally someone who has some understanding of the way business and companies work. Actually this only describes one model for how business works. Many creative firms do quite well servicing a niche market. In fact, many of these companies can be incredibly profitable. I have no idea how wide a market Obsidian wants to appeal to with this game. It could be very likely that if they can fund this game with Kickstarter and sell another 100,000 copies upon release, a reasonable profit could be made; enough to pay for the next installment and really nice fruitcakes come bonus time. In fact, the case Ogrezilla makes may not be realistically possible. It could lead Obsidian down the notorious path of designing a game with, "something of everyone." This is usually the worst mistake that any creative company can make; not only because that game doesn't exist, but also because the pursuit of such a mythical creature will only disenfranchise their core audience. that is why you see so much opposition to certain ideas that make the plea for wider appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenshrike Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 All I ask is that the devs name 'easy mode' 'Candy Land mode' so people are properly shamed for taking the easy way out If the story is good and varied enough you'd probably see my 5th or 6th characters going easy mode simply to run through. Either that or I'll go the cheating god route. Probably the latter as it results in much funnier battles. "You know, there's more to being an evil despot than getting cake whenever you want it" "If that's what you think, you're DOING IT WRONG." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karranthain Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 I don't see a problem here, just use cheatcodes No need for a separate mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lulla-Isra Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 I don't really see the problem, there's usually always an easy mode in these sorts of games if that's your thing. If you still can't manage it, cheatcodes or read a book instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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