Why I'm not entirely happy with Update #7.

[Merin]

Several people have mentioned V:TM-B as an example of how some of this works. There are also many PnP RPGs that don't award for killing. I mean, go all the way back to TSR's Marvel Super Hero game for many of these concepts.

 

1 - you received Karma (that's games XP) for stopping crimes, for saving people, for doing good deeds, for being a friend... and lost karma for killing, stealing, etc.

2 - It also had some different stats - not just different names for them, but different concepts of attributes: one of the only games I've seen that has a "Fighting" skill, separating phsyical strength from innate self-defense ability; Intuition and Psyche, splitting what Wisdom usually represents into two (I feel) clearly separate things. Point - there are different ways to do things than the D&D model that so many fantasy RPGs follow

 

As far as how is XP given without killing things, there are so many ways this can be done. Games are computer programs which use equations, and one of the most simple concepts is the "if-then" statements, which gamers would most often recognize as being used in plot flags. So instead of the games if-then looking at "did creature die" it can instead look at "was encounter successfully completed" which then checks a list of possible success conditions, and returns a "true" if any of the conditions are met (are all the creatures dead? did the player's party reach the other side of the bridge? either being satsified means the players have succeeded and gets the encounter XP.)

 

The only way this COULD be considered a problem is if you consider an open world, free-explore map with randomly generated creatures. How can pre-defined goals be set up if it's random?

Well, for one, we don't know that PE will be this kind of game.

But, for two, when the random creatures are generated, a random encounter can be generated using the same lines of code.

IF party approaches sector X,Y on the overworld map, CHECK for random creatures

- IF random creatures EQUALS TRUE, generate encounter conditions

 

It's not rocket science. It's computer science.

Edited September 23, 2012 by Merin

[Waywocket]

I don't see how this wouldn't have worked in IWD. If anything, IWD is probably the IE game where it would have worked the best, considering how linear it was.

 

In that game you could tie xp rewards to the main bosses of each level, and/or to completing said level.

 

IWD already does this - probably the majority of XP comes from progressing through the story (and there are places where you don't want to miss out on talking to somebody, even though it's not necessary to progress, because there could be 20,000XP in it for you).

 

Despite being more-or-less a straight dungeon crawl, it also encourages you to explore dialogue options and not just attack on sight - for example, when you find the cultists impersonating followers of a peaceful god, you get a substantial bonus for talking them into revealing themselves versus just attacking or breaking into their inner sanctum.

[TwinkieGorilla]

Tim has always been focused on the importance of multiple paths being open for multiple and specific character builds. What exactly is surprising about this update? In fact, the second I saw him on board I got excited for this very reason and expected nothing less.

[hideo kuze]

Merin, I think you gave an interesting idea about point splitting on your thread http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60602-combat-oriented-vs-non-combat-oriented-a-possible-implementation/

 

I would just say have the combat and non-combat skill points poll sizes differ according to your attributes or your class.

Instead of being based on perks... which I'm not even sure if they'll be in the game.

 

This way you could still have room for some min-maxing.

[Merin]

Merin, I think you gave an interesting idea about point splitting on your thread http://forums.obsidi...implementation/

 

I would just say have the combat and non-combat skill points poll sizes differ according to your attributes or your class.

Instead of being based on perks... which I'm not even sure if they'll be in the game.

 

This way you could still have room for some min-maxing.

 

Thanks for the shout-out.

 

I tried purposefully to NOT define how those points would be attributed, or even hazard a guess at what Obsidian is going to (or could) chose to do about levels, classes, etc... trying to only focus on the combat / non-combat breakdown of distributed resources for character creation and development.

 

That other stuff is interesting and important too, but I was going for a narrower point.

 

Maybe too narrow? I dunno.

[greenmonster]

I am not worried about a dual Xp system affecting balance. Since you have to invest time in one or the other is effectively the same as making a choice within a single XP system.