The Way of the Sword

[Bloodshard]

Being that this is going to be a new IP and not compeatly bound to the ways of other RPGs. we have a chance to play with ways of Scaling Weapons found in the game. there are many ways to handle Weapon scaling in video games. like in TES IV Oblivion nobody had a glass sword until you got into late game to prevent you from getting them and killing everyone in the early game. D&D based games have minimum levels of strength and dexterity required to use certain weapons. But all of these tend to bug me as a "IRL" B Class competition Saber Fencer, because its not really the sword that is the determining factor, its your skill with one. An improper stance or swing will shatter a sword faster than attacking a wiled gazebo. One of the few redeeming factors of Final Fantasy X was they tried a Weapon scaling system closer to reality. they had it set up that you could go through the entire game with your first sword because all swords had perks instead of damage. Skyrim had a passive learning system that was quite good but it still leaned more to the swords ability than yours.

 

Lets relate this to everybody "favorite" sword the Katana. Some would say that the katana is the best sword in the world because of its unparalleled sharpness, and that given a katana they would have the edge over anyone with any other type of weapon. But in actuality the Sword Master Miyamoto Musashi won some pretty spectacular duels with a Boken (a wooden practice katana) against other sword masters with Katanas.

 

So its not the sword but your ability with that type of weapon, that decides the amount of damage done. So I would say that the best way to handle weapon scaling is to have it limited by your skill in that style. have a base combat skill that is then tempered by a proficiency skill that can be gained by ether using that type of weapon, or being trained. but then only have damage perks on a weapon like (Katana, +2 slashing, +1 Cleaving, -1 Stabbing) and the higher your skill the longer any Durability lasts. you can even have a range of skills that overlap each other, so that skill in similar weapons could add to each other.

 

This System could also be used for any enchantments on the sword being that they draw power from your Soul. So the higher your Magic ability the more powerful your enchantments will be.

 

The Flip side of this is if you trained your character for a specific weapons type and use something that you are not trained in you have a higher probability of your weapon braking in combat.

[Odarbi]

Hitting was always determined by a proficiency type system in the IE games. More proficiency with the weapon resulted in more attacks per round, better chances of hitting the target, and such things as that. The strength requirements were there more from a "strength to carry/swing the weapon effectively" style system more than an arbitrary intention to just restrict it's useage. A greatsword is harder to use effectively than a short sword, or whatever.

 

I suppose the system could be changed so that not meeting a strength/dexterity require for a certain weapon could then apply a penalty on hit chance and/or damage, rather than being a flat "you can't use this", but it almost seems like needless fluff outside of a situation where you have a regular short sword and somehow find an amazingly powerful greatsword instead.

 

If you are referring to having a system where weapon damage scales based on user's skill, I could see that working out to a certain extent, but then you also have to remember that another skilled fighter would be able to parry or dodge your blows and what not.

[Badprenup]

I agree. I wouldn't mind some damage to be determined by the weapon, but I would rather it be based on your actual skill using one. One way this could be done is by replacing the damage stat on weapons with damage multipliers. So all daggers could have anywhere from a .8 to a 2.0 multiplier and swords would be able to get anywhere from a .5 to 2.5 multiplier, depending on the individual weapon. But if you had only used daggers the entire game and had high dagger skill stats, then a .8 damage multiplier dagger would still be a lot stronger than a 3.0 multiplier sword.

 

Not to mention other perks things could have like daggers giving increased backstab damage, maces doing more damage to skeletons, or crossbows having piercing damage.

[Sarog]

Personally I'm hoping that Obsidian will break from the mold set by other RPGs that have you pick your weapon of choice while your character is still in swaddling clothes, to which you are married for the rest of your character's career if you don't want your specializations to go to waste. The ability to use the weapon that suits your circumstances is important to me. Not even William Wallace would opt to stick with his greatsword while fighting goblins in a cramped cave system just to take advantage of his weapon specialization. I'd sooner see a system built on different combat modes and styles that aren't tied to a weapon, than one that encourages you to invest exclusively in one particular weapon type.

[Ashram]

What do you think about weapons that improve based on the time/effort you put into that particular specific weapon? Something along the lines of weapon familiars, kensai class, legendary weapons, where a sword may be good but may become incredible and unlock special abilities the more time you spend with it...mastering it....maybe even associated with quests or requirements to meet certain achievements. IE some skills transfer from one weapon of the same class to the next, but there is benefit to mastering a specific weapon. Aka your Demon Sword you found at level 3 is viable and amazing at level 20.

[Bloodshard]

What do you think about weapons that improve based on the time/effort you put into that particular specific weapon? Something along the lines of weapon familiars, kensai class, legendary weapons, where a sword may be good but may become incredible and unlock special abilities the more time you spend with it...mastering it....maybe even associated with quests or requirements to meet certain achievements. IE some skills transfer from one weapon of the same class to the next, but there is benefit to mastering a specific weapon. Aka your Demon Sword you found at level 3 is viable and amazing at level 20.

 

Something like that would be good especially if there are equal and opposite skills. like if you train in daggers than guys with bows and spears are super hard to get close to. but if you learned to use a shield you could counter arrows by using roman shield walls.

[dlux]

So, "rusty piece of **** sword" and "little blunt letter opener" should do the same amount of damage as a dwarven forged "excalibur of whoop ass", if you are a master swordsman?

 

No.

 

And to top it off you want to remove the fun and reward out of exploring to find new powerful weapons.

 

So, double no.

[Bloodshard]

Only if the NPC you are fighting is like 50+ levels below you. In reality it dose happen. But better weapons have better perks so its still good to look for rare weapons. I dwarven sword is made out of better material so it will cut through more armor and weapons than a rusty iron sword

[Infinitron]

Bloodshard: Fact is, in D&D, your character level determines your performance in combat to a far greater extent than your weapon. Base Attack Bonus (BAB) is where it's at - damage is just the icing on the cake, as long as you're not wielding a toothpick. So your point is kind of moot.

Edited September 18, 2012 by Infinitron

[Lord of Lost Socks]

So, "rusty piece of **** sword" and "little blunt letter opener" should do the same amount of damage as a dwarven forged "excalibur of whoop ass", if you are a master swordsman?

 

No.

 

And to top it off you want to remove the fun and reward out of exploring to find new powerful weapons.

 

So, double no.

A blunt sword does less damage. A rusty but sharp sword does same-ish damage as excalibur, but breaks and blunts easier.

 

I think running around and constantly seeing bigger stats on the weapons diminishes the magic of finding magic weapons. Sure there can be magical weapons that do more damage than the average sword, I just hope these would be rare and prime quality weapons would be rare-ish, etc. Finding a good quality sword in early game should be as fun as finding a magic sword late game. And the difference between these two weapons should exist, but it should not be a huge gap like this:

 

Sword - 10 damage

50 weapon changes later(including 45 magic weapons)

Magic Sword of Thunder Lightning Mana Awesomesauce God Mk. II - 10 000 damage

 

This is ridiculous. They must strike a balance in this.

Edited September 18, 2012 by Lord of Lost Socks

[Tauron]

It does need to be balanced. But I am with OP on this one, your profficency/character sheet should matter more. A lvl 1 fighter with + 10 katana should loose against lvl 10 fighter with +1 katana. I am for having nice and deadly and magical weapons in game, but these should be bonus for your character, reward or quest related.

[czinczar]

The best system for me that I have seen in few games is the following : there are certain minimum stats that you need in order (minimum dex, str, whatever) to use the weapon with minimum efficiency, but you become more efficient with that weapon when the linked stats increase. So for example : to use the short sword you need 1 dex and 2 str, that's the minimum you need to have in those attributes to use the short sword with minimum efficiency. But the short sword will be used with full potential when you have 5 dex and 7 str, that's when the weapon is "capped", that's the maximum power you can obtain from that weapon.

 

I think this is a great way to show that anyone can grab a katana and swing it, but it takes more training to actually properly use it at its best.

Edited September 18, 2012 by czinczar