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In defense of turn based combat systems


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First of all, hi to everyone. I'm new to the forum but I'm also a die-hard fan of the RPG genre (both p&p systems and videogames). So I guess this's gonna be an easy "cohabitation".

 

Now, let's cut to the chase: I loved IE games, (before them I loved Darklands, that - I suspect - influenced a LOT the way you designed Storm of Zehir, Obsidian guys :D), I loved Myth, I love Total War, Company of Heroes and Dawn of War games...In short, I have nothing against tactical real time combat systems.

Still I consider turn based combat the best choice for RPGs. Why? Essentially because RPGs are games where players are supposed to handle with a small number of characters (4 up to 6, usually) with an huge amount of abilities/skills/spells (in comparison with war games). So, a lot of micro-management is need in order to "correctly" use those abilities, and so, a lot of pauses are needed in order to do that.

The result is a combat system that doesn't offer either the fluidity of a RTC system and the complete control over the action of a TBC system.

 

Now, I know you guys have a lot of experience with tactical combats and I'm totally sure you considered all options, but are you totally sure that TBCs aren't the best choice for this game? If yes, why?

 

PS: Sorry for my low score in English skill. I'm a foreigner ;).

Edited by Baudolino05
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TB is as dead as disco. Sorry.

 

Twelve minutes killing critters a la Fallout? No thanks.

 

Sorry, man, but this argument is dead as disco :). Have you ever seen a walkthrough of the new X-Com or played a p&p session with Cthulhu or Warhammer Fantasy RPG? Turn based combats are slow only if you design them for being slow.

 

You have other kickstarter games for your TBC addiction. Don't be greedy now. :)

 

True enough, but this one could be my dream's computer-RPG :)

 

PS: sorry for the double post, I can't find the delete button

Edited by Baudolino05
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I'm a big fan of real time with pause and I'm glad this is the system they're going with. The IE games validated this approach, why change something that works and works well.

"The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing that is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

 

John Stuart Mill

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<p>

I'm a big fan of real time with pause and I'm glad this is the system they're going with. The IE games validated this approach, why change something that works and works well.

 

Because combats in The Temple of Elemental Evil work better. And because the best tactical games ever shipped on pc (X-Com an Jagged Alliance) are both turn based.

I'm not saying that TBS sucks, don't get me wrong, Tiliqua. I really love this kind of games. But I'm still convinced that TBC is better suited for RPGs, and I explained why in my first post.

Edited by Baudolino05
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This thread is useless as the combat system being used has already been decided and they ain't gonna change it.

 

P.S. TOEE combat system was great. It's combat, on the other hand, was rather weak.

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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This thread is useless as the combat system being used has already been decided and they ain't gonna change it.

 

I'm aware of that, but I would like if one the developers came here to explain his reasons....

 

P.S. TOEE combat system was great. It's combat, on the other hand, was rather weak.

 

Weak? Are you serious, man? In my opinion TToEE has the best adaptation of the best edition of D&D (3.5). It also has the best bestiary in a D&D game, So, in short, it has the best combat (especially with Co8 installed) ...Bugs apart, obviously ;)

Edited by Baudolino05
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I'm all for a turnbased system since with real time it's really easy for me to forget about a partymember for some time if there are many. I really hope they could add it as an option since I don't think it is to much work because it really is turnbased anyway, only without pauses after each characters action.

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What Volourn is saying is that the combat mechanics in ToEE are well made. But that encounter design was poor, thus leading to overall weak combat. I tend to agree with that sentiment.

 

And I don't agree even with this line. For me good bestiary = good combat encounters, and ToEE has a VERY good bestiary. It has a poor story, a TERRIBLE hud, but definitely not a weak encounter design or overall combat.

I find overall weaker the combat in the AD&D powered IE games, in part because they inherited the balance issues of AD&D, in part because something was lost in translation (from a TBC sytem to RTP one), in part because the encounter design (more in BG than in IWD) allowed players to use the same tactic in most of the situations.

 

Anyway, the point is not how good is combat in ToEE. The point is why choosing a RTP system instead of TB one, and - honestly - till now I didn't hear a good reason...

 

I'm all for a turnbased system since with real time it's really easy for me to forget about a partymember for some time if there are many. I really hope they could add it as an option since I don't think it is to much work because it really is turnbased anyway, only without pauses after each characters action.

 

Actually I don't think hybrid solutions works. So I prefer a 100% a RTP combat...

Edited by Baudolino05
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