How much?

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

I'm starting this thread for all questions about the exact meaning/value of certain vaguely worded descriptions of abilities, proficiencies, and talents.

 

The one I'm currently interested in right now: "Anjali has a 10% chance to regenerate life when she takes damage." OK, how much? I'm not gonna max out Phoenix's Warmth just so I can have a 50% chance to regenerate an unknown amount of life. This talent could be good or bad depending on how much you get back. 50% of the damage done to you? 100%? And I'm sure it is, but is this instant regeneration?

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

I ask these types of questions a lot, and I rarely get answers. I didn't expect an answer, at least not one that isn't a flat out guess. It just bugs me when I see vague wording or flat out unknown things that are pretty important. I'm waiting to come across a stat in a game that "adds damage sometimes". I wouldn't be surprised if I saw that exact wording, which is sad. RPGs are about numbers, and you may not need to know every formula on how it all works, but you should at least know what the hell a talent is that you're adding points to.

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

I just noticed that almost every statistic has a vague description too. Here's an example:

 

Warding: "grants your hero a low chance to stun ..."

 

1. What is a "low chance"?

2. How long are they stunned?

Edited September 16, 2011 by SilentBob420BMFJ

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

I'm extremely curious about the Chaos effects, for a slightly different reason:

 

Chaos - Poison: "grants your attacks a moderate chance to deal heavy poison damage over 9 seconds"

 

Forget about "moderate" not being defined, what about the fact that we actually don't know what we're increasing here? With the Chaos effects, what are you adding when you have some gear with a Chaos effect value of 15 instead of 4? Think about it: you're not adding any greater chance, because the chance is defined as "moderate"; you're not adding any more damage, because the damage is defined as "heavy"; and you're not changing the duration of the effect, which is exactly 9 seconds. So...

[FireMist]

I'm extremely curious about the Chaos effects, for a slightly different reason:

 

Chaos - Poison: "grants your attacks a moderate chance to deal heavy poison damage over 9 seconds"

 

Forget about "moderate" not being defined, what about the fact that we actually don't know what we're increasing here? With the Chaos effects, what are you adding when you have some gear with a Chaos effect value of 15 instead of 4? Think about it: you're not adding any greater chance, because the chance is defined as "moderate"; you're not adding any more damage, because the damage is defined as "heavy"; and you're not changing the duration of the effect, which is exactly 9 seconds. So...

As a rule of thumb, when choosing gear for your characters, go for the "core" stats: attack, agility, will, stamina, armor. A weapon which is + 20 Attack is generally better than one with +10 Attack and +30 Fire because the Fire effect is based on a chance (not well defined, as you have pointed out), whereas Attack is *always* added to Attack DPS. And furthermore, if you have a good Attack and Ability DPS your enemies will be long dead before they can taste the effects of poison, fire, lightning or whatever.

Edited September 16, 2011 by FireMist

[FireMist]

As for your question about stunning, IIRC, there are few abilities with 100% Stunning (spoilers).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- Lucas's Shield Pummel ( 100% Stun for 3 secs)

- Katarina's Warding Ritual (100% Knockdown, I don't remember for how long)

- Reinhart's Lightining Strike with at least 1 point in (don't remember the name, but it adds 0,4 sec stun per rank). Once you assign 1 point to it it is 100% Stun, what differs is the amount of time the enemy stays stunned

 

- Stun and Knockdown don't work for most major bosses though, even with 100% chance.

- The Stagger effect in weapons are like the other Chaos effects: chance-based and worst of all, not well defined. Personally, I never use them with characters with 100% Stun/Knockdown unless they have good core stats (attack, agility and will).

Edited September 16, 2011 by FireMist

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

I'm extremely curious about the Chaos effects, for a slightly different reason:

 

Chaos - Poison: "grants your attacks a moderate chance to deal heavy poison damage over 9 seconds"

 

Forget about "moderate" not being defined, what about the fact that we actually don't know what we're increasing here? With the Chaos effects, what are you adding when you have some gear with a Chaos effect value of 15 instead of 4? Think about it: you're not adding any greater chance, because the chance is defined as "moderate"; you're not adding any more damage, because the damage is defined as "heavy"; and you're not changing the duration of the effect, which is exactly 9 seconds. So...

As a rule of thumb, when choosing gear for your characters, go for the "core" stats: attack, agility, will, stamina, armor. A weapon which is + 20 Attack is generally better than one with +10 Attack and +30 Fire because the Fire effect is based on a chance (not well defined, as you have pointed out), whereas Attack is *always* added to Attack DPS. And furthermore, if you have a good Attack and Ability DPS your enemies will be long dead before they can taste the effects of poison, fire, lightning or whatever.

 

Definitely true, however, we need to know all the stuff I asked, because where do you draw the line? Do you give up 5 attack to get 20 of something else? If that something else is like I described above, a stat with a vague description, well you have no way of technically comparing it. Seriously, "a chance to do damage" etc. doesn't mean anything in an RPG. How often, how much, how long? Those must be answered for every statistic, ability, etc.

[Sasha_Je]

Indeed, a lot of info is missing in this game...this is the reason I kinda hate Dungeon Siege III. But I hope that the upcoming DLC will solve this issues. o.O the info you are looking for can be delivered only by developers.

[FireMist]

I agree. The game menu is very vague when describing chaos effects - and the proficiencies/ talents descriptions as well, which is far worse.

Regarding effect duration, it is quite useless in a game where combat is extremely fast-paced and enemies (and your character, if you are not careful) die in five seconds. Why bother about poisoning causing damage over 9 seconds if enemies are already dead by then?

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

True. I stay away from those duration effects, especially when the description says low/moderate. Speaking of which, They use this high/moderate/low chance/damage system to describe stuff, which is dumb. Who's to say what high or low? It totally depends on what you're talking about, but I consider a high chance to be like 50%, but maybe it's 80%, which means it's more useful that I thought. And for the damage, if it says it does "moderate" damage, does that mean it starts at that and as you add points it gets higher? Is that for 1 point in that stat that it starts doing "moderate" damage?

 

I know this game doesn't require the absolute best choices, but still, that's the fun of playing a game like this, as somebody put it in another thread. If this were the World Of Warcraft forum, I guarantee you somebody would know the answers to these questions, because some people find out, no matter what.

[Monokli]

Yeah these stats are a whole steaming pile of...

 

DS1 weapon stated that how much poison damage it dealt. It also told you the remaining duration on any combat actor (you, pm and foe) so it was easier to distinguish.

 

In ds2 we had specialties such as ignite and bleed. They dealt damage like 0.5*Intelligence score or 0.35*dexterity for stated duration. I wish obsidian played through ds2 more through instead of going with their egoistic version of "originalty and fun" and ENFORCING it on the playerbase.

[FireMist]

Yeah these stats are a whole steaming pile of...

 

DS1 weapon stated that how much poison damage it dealt. It also told you the remaining duration on any combat actor (you, pm and foe) so it was easier to distinguish.

 

In ds2 we had specialties such as ignite and bleed. They dealt damage like 0.5*Intelligence score or 0.35*dexterity for stated duration. I wish obsidian played through ds2 more through instead of going with their egoistic version of "originalty and fun" and ENFORCING it on the playerbase.

 

In DS III Anjali is able to set enemies ablaze and Lucas is able to do bleeding damage but honestly, I noted no difference. I killed most enemies in 3-5 strikes (except for bosses)...I don

[Sasha_Je]

It's not about having stronger monsters or something related to this, the problem is the game itself. Technically it offers the possibility to play as you like but when it comes to the actual game-play the only viable way is pure offensive. If you want to make Lucas a "tank" in order to protect your companion/party it's not possible because there is no damage reduce stat on items or anything apart from the Shield Wall or whatever is called that can be used on party also and it gives 20% def. This is just a basic example, remember how in DS II you could make a character with a shield and use Provocation? And this was the basic, you could evolve with some counter stuns and stuff like this. DS III is limited...this is what I always say ed about this game...Obsidian didn't even took the time to make a difference between Physical and Magical damage. Your character gets physical/magical defense from Armor...lol...for a 2011 RPG it's pretty weak, if you take a sneak peak at rpg's from 10-15 years ago you will find this stuff, the basis.

[metamag]

I just noticed that almost every statistic has a vague description too. Here's an example:

 

Warding: "grants your hero a low chance to stun ..."

 

1. What is a "low chance"?

2. How long are they stunned?

 

This has been already discussed on the forum many times in many topics.

 

Basically, Obsidian Entertainment crossed the delicate line from streamlining over to dumbing down which impoverishes the game. I guess they think people are not very smart or literate or something.

 

Also the randomness and lack of uniqueness of chaos statistics is a problem because you then can't make specific builds out of them, like lightning build or fire build, since chances don't stack.

 

Hopefully all of that and more will be addressed in the upcoming DLC. This game is certainly too good to be abandoned, pretty much has the most fun combat system of all ARPG games.

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

Yeah these stats are a whole steaming pile of...

 

DS1 weapon stated that how much poison damage it dealt. It also told you the remaining duration on any combat actor (you, pm and foe) so it was easier to distinguish.

 

In ds2 we had specialties such as ignite and bleed. They dealt damage like 0.5*Intelligence score or 0.35*dexterity for stated duration. I wish obsidian played through ds2 more through instead of going with their egoistic version of "originalty and fun" and ENFORCING it on the playerbase.

 

So this much needed info was in the first 2 games? *facepalm*

[metamag]

So this much needed info was in the first 2 games? *facepalm*

 

 

Exactly.

Combat is great but they really should have thought about the stat stuff, effects and how that can affect builds.

It's not even a money/resource thing, it's an idea/paying attention thing.

[Sasha_Je]

Well we shall see what is going with the announced DLC. Obsidian say ed that the level of customization with increase. If this does not happen and most of all some sort of NewGame+ I will sell this game. It does have a very good combat system but it lacks a lot of other major features, and for me it's not good enough...You can see deeper ARPG games 10-12 years ago maybe more, so for 2011 this level of complexity is embarrassing.

[FireMist]

It's not about having stronger monsters or something related to this, the problem is the game itself. Technically it offers the possibility to play as you like but when it comes to the actual game-play the only viable way is pure offensive. If you want to make Lucas a "tank" in order to protect your companion/party it's not possible because there is no damage reduce stat on items or anything apart from the Shield Wall or whatever is called that can be used on party also and it gives 20% def. This is just a basic example, remember how in DS II you could make a character with a shield and use Provocation? And this was the basic, you could evolve with some counter stuns and stuff like this. DS III is limited...this is what I always say ed about this game...Obsidian didn't even took the time to make a difference between Physical and Magical damage. Your character gets physical/magical defense from Armor...lol...for a 2011 RPG it's pretty weak, if you take a sneak peak at rpg's from 10-15 years ago you will find this stuff, the basis.

 

That

[Monokli]

want a screenshot?

[Sasha_Je]

There is no need for a ss, I believe we all know Dungeon Siege II game mechanics.

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

I just noticed that almost every statistic has a vague description too. Here's an example:

 

Warding: "grants your hero a low chance to stun ..."

 

1. What is a "low chance"?

2. How long are they stunned?

 

This has been already discussed on the forum many times in many topics.

 

Basically, Obsidian Entertainment crossed the delicate line from streamlining over to dumbing down which impoverishes the game. I guess they think people are not very smart or literate or something.

 

Also the randomness and lack of uniqueness of chaos statistics is a problem because you then can't make specific builds out of them, like lightning build or fire build, since chances don't stack.

 

Hopefully all of that and more will be addressed in the upcoming DLC. This game is certainly too good to be abandoned, pretty much has the most fun combat system of all ARPG games.

 

Really? The only thing I know about this forum in my experience is that it's dead. Wish I played this game when this forum had people on it, if it really did.

 

The people who aren't very smart, and the people who just don't care, both of them won't pay attention, regardless of what's written, so who cares? I can't see how giving a more specific description, with numbers, would be bad. Think those dumb people or people who don't care would see a number and say the game is too complex, but yet they're fine with "does damage over time"? No.