Tormet

[vault_overseer]

what happened to Black Isle when Guido left Interplay?

 

"Torn" - unreleased - EPIC FAIL.

"Van Buren" - unreleased - EPIC FAIL.

"Black Hound" - unreleased - EPIC FAIL.

 

in Obsidian:

"SW: KOTOR2" - unfinished, lots of bugs - FAIL

"NWN2 OC" - unfinished, lots of bugs - FAIL

"NWN2 MotB" - worse than Planescape.

"NWN2 SoZ" - simple FAIL

"Alien RPG" - unreleased - EPIC FAIL

"Alfa Protocol" yet unreleased - FAIL

 

Meanwhile "Drakensang"(cool, original, not sequel) released by Guido Henkel - MEGA WIN!!!

Looks like someone just does not know how to work.

 

So what are you doing on these boards then?

[Se_]

So what are you doing on these boards then?

2 variants:

 

1.) (S)he is into masochism.

2.) (S)he lives under the bridge.

Edited April 5, 2010 by Se_

[obyknven]

So what are you doing on these boards then?

Because Planescape is best game of all time. But its sad, modern crpg sucks.

[Se_]

Try Geneforge series, if you want some c&c and good writing.

[obyknven]

Thanks Se

 

About Obsidian Entertainment and the

[vault_overseer]

And yet you believe that OSI is unable to produce anything good without some obscure and very unproffecional german producer...

[J.E. Sawyer]

There's plenty of criticism to level against BIS and Obsidian but Jefferson and Van Buren were cancelled because of licensing problems (for Jefferson) and Interplay's lack of operating capital (for Van Buren). I have never heard/seen anyone from BIS or IPLY dispute this.

[Slowtrain]

Wait, what?

 

Drakensang?

 

A new standard for win?

 

Please. BIS and Obs combined have never made a game that ****ty.

 

That being said, I'm waiting for the inevitable announcement that FO:NV has been cancelled.

[Spider]

(I think that games are cheaper to make in Europe though, so the ROI on Drakensang was probably pretty decent)

 

I seriously doubt that, certainly not Europe as a whole!

 

Certianly not Europe as a whole. But games like Drakensang and The Witcher certainly feel like they're lower budget than many games from stateside. The Witcher less so than Drakensang though.

 

When I said cheaper I meant that the games can get away with lower production values, not that the workforce wants less pay. There are exceptions of course, game studios that work directly for a North American publisher for instance (like DICE).

 

But I suppose maybe it's just more independent games in general, rather than a european phenomenon specifically.

[Gromnir]

am trying to figure out the standard for "FAIL."

 

if a buggy release is cause for fail, then planescape were FAIL. some of you kids do not recall the release of ps:t, but it were delayed and ugly with bugs... including that memory leak issue that made game unplayable for many folks. also, as has been discussed many times, ps:t were a FAIL as far as return on investment were concerned... took far too long to eventually get into the black. and no, a million flies cannot be wrong. game development and game publishing is business. if you do not make money, then you will not stay long in the business o' game development. if those million flies are able to pony up the money necessary to purchase games, then no, they cannot be wrong.

 

could guido have saved torn? is our understanding that lithtech engine were FAIL. blame black isle for failure to recognize that lithtech were less than advertised, but am not sure a producer woulda' been able to resurrect the torn development. am also not certain how guido coulda changed fate of bg iii or fo iii.

 

furthermore, am confused by complaints... delay of alpha protocol results in a FAIL, but unfinished and buggy is also resulting in FAIL. well? only way to not result in fail is to release on-time w/o bugs? fair enough... but perhaps you have some examples o' such games?

 

in addition, if ps:t is 'posed to be the best game evar, then fact that motb is not as great as ps:t is hardly a noteworthy criticism, is it?

 

given the absence o' standards for success v. failure, it is difficult to take the FAIL list serious. also, we hate bad logic. failure to show some correlation 'tween guido contribution and success is a FAIL.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Slowtrain]

am trying to figure out the standard for "FAIL."

 

if a buggy release is cause for fail, then planescape were FAIL. some of you kids do not recall the release of ps:t, but it were delayed and ugly with bugs...

 

 

I remember THAC0 reset when you went over level 20.

[mr insomniac]

Interplay is tools, BIS is bad workman. Ili kak govorjat u nas v Rossii: "Chrenovomu tancoru vsegda jajica meshajut". Togda Interplay - jajica, а BIS - chrenoviji tancor.

Apologies, I don't speak russian, and Babelfish wouldn't translate for me.

 

Interplay is the supervisor telling BIS, "Take this paint roller and this single bucket of paint, and paint me a Mona Lisa. Oh and we can only budget you for one week's work."

 

am trying to figure out the standard for "FAIL."

 

if a buggy release is cause for fail, then planescape were FAIL. some of you kids do not recall the release of ps:t, but it were delayed and ugly with bugs...

 

I remember THAC0 reset when you went over level 20.

The effects of Ice Knife were permanent, and I believe cumulative, unless the affected character died and was resurrected. Stupid cranium rats. Luckily it was later fan-patched.

 

Okay we'll be here til Alpha Protocol is released if we're gonna list PS:T bugs. I'll shut up now.

[HoonDing]

Wait, what?

 

Drakensang?

 

A new standard for win?

 

Please. BIS and Obs combined have never made a game that ****ty.

Have you played the game?

 

Certianly not Europe as a whole. But games like Drakensang and The Witcher certainly feel like they're lower budget than many games from stateside. The Witcher less so than Drakensang though.

I do not really understand this comment. The only thing that felt lower budget about Drakensang compared to a stateside release, was the incomplete voice-over. Unlike the Witcher, there weren't any major issues with performance, bugs & crashes at all... because the game was foremost made for a German audience (and won German RPG of the year).

[Spider]

Little voice acting, bad writing, badly explained mechanics, boring and one dimensional quests, dull art design.

 

Off the top of my head. But I wasn't basing the comment on Drakensang alone. I'll say this for it though, it was a million times better than Two Worlds.

[Slowtrain]

Have you played the game?

 

 

Not the whole thing, no.

[Rostere]

Because Planescape is best game of all time. But its sad, modern crpg sucks.

Meanwhile "Drakensang"(cool, original, not sequel) released by Guido Henkel - MEGA WIN!!!

Looks like someone just does not know how to work.

I wonder how you can even compare Drakensang to Torment in that way. I mean, suppose this german dude really influenced Torment more than Avellone or any single one of the "big guys" in the design department did. And then he went and made Drakensang, which is 1. Not at all similar to Torment (as computer RPGs go), 2. Not at all as good as Torment and 3. Features probably the most bland and uninteresting fantasy setting ever.

 

I mean, it's not that I think Drakensang is an outright bad game, it definitely has some merit, but the story and the imagery is decidedly sub-par. Whoever did the game mechanics, combat and such, deserves some kudos but the rest of the game is really not anything I would like to be associated with if I was in the gaming industry.

 

Now, what made Torment so good? Mainly the art, the story, the writing and the interpretation of the setting. These are exactly the areas in which Drakensang is extremely lacking. So why would Guido ever want to create a game with such abysmal quality in these areas, if he influenced these areas in such a positive way during the production of Torment? Can you explain that? Or which areas of development did you mean Guido Henkel influenced during the development of Torment?

 

On a side note, I find it laughably absurd that someone who hold Torment as their favourite game would hold Drakensang in such favour I am intrigued by your most peculiar taste in games.

[Se_]

Apologies, I don't speak russian, and Babelfish wouldn't translate for me.

If I understand correctly she've said that bad dancer was always complaining about his testicles being the main reason of his bad performance. And Interplay in this metaphor is the testicles, while Black Isle is the dancer.

 

BTW, I disagree with her & think that BI is da best! So there is no need to argue with me

Edited April 6, 2010 by Se_

[Slowtrain]

I mean, it's not that I think Drakensang is an outright bad game,

 

 

It's not Oblivion bad, no. It may not even be Lands of Lore 3 bad. But imo it's not comparable to anything made by BIS or Obsidian.

[Tigranes]

So, uh, the tools hire and pay the workmen?

 

Okay.

It is proverb. Do not take it literally

 

Uh, the point was your use of the proverb is not logical at all.

 

could guido have saved torn? is our understanding that lithtech engine were FAIL. blame black isle for failure to recognize that lithtech were less than advertised, but am not sure a producer woulda' been able to resurrect the torn development. am also not certain how guido coulda changed fate of bg iii or fo iii.

 

Always wonder about Torn. If it were eventually released I think I'd probably have felt the same about it as NWN - everyone wanting to go to 3D way too early so it's butt hurt ugly, horrible performance and generally worse off. At least NWN had a pretty good engine for modding.

[mr insomniac]

Apologies, I don't speak russian, and Babelfish wouldn't translate for me.

If I understand correctly she've said that bad dancer was always complaining about his testicles being the main reason of his bad performance. And Interplay in this metaphor is the testicles, while Black Isle is the dancer.

 

BTW, I disagree with her & think that BI is da best! So there is no need to argue with me

Ah, thank you. That's actually too funny. I LOL'd

 

EDIT:

"Alfa Protocol" yet unreleased - FAIL

Delayed or not, Alpha Protocol just became a MEGA WIN

Edited April 6, 2010 by mr insomniac

[HoonDing]

I'll just point out that Guido Henkel had nothing to do with the development & release of Drakensang. He left the gaming industry in 2000.

 

He's known for the Realms of Arkania trilogy.

[Rostere]

I'll just point out that Guido Henkel had nothing to do with the development & release of Drakensang. He left the gaming industry in 2000.

 

He's known for the Realms of Arkania trilogy.

 

That would explain his uneven performance on Torment and Drakensang. I mean, the fact that the guy didn't even work on the latter.

 

Although I know of the original Realms of Arkania trilogy I haven't played it myself, so no comments there.

[Spider]

According to Moby Games he made a game called FlipIt in 2004. But he's not listed for Drakensang.

 

But there is an interview with him about Drakensang (in german) so it's an easy mistake to make I guess. I jsut saw an english link to it where it did indeed say that he wasn't involved in the game.

 

Which makes the original point even worse than it already was.