Moscow metro bombing

[213374U]

I don't know enough to have a good opinion of it - I am acutely aware of the bias Western media sources have against Putin and the Russian government, portraying them as enigmatic, self-interested, opaque and internally corrupt, always insinuating there are things going on we don't know about (same with China, really). But that doesn't tell me what the reality is (i.e. some of that bias might be true nevertheless, maybe not).

Look up "Blowing Up Russia". The book was banned in that country, for one reason or another, and was authored by that guy that was killed with Polonium in the UK a few years back.

 

And don't forget to polish your tinfoit hat.

Edited April 3, 2010 by 213374U

[Zoraptor]

Litvinenko. It's almost completely impossible to tell whether he was a good source (certainly the accusation that one of the apartment bombings, albeit one which never exploded, was a set up looked solid, but that is also the one with pre-existing evidence independent of him) or utterly bonkers (Putin is a paedophile and, iirc, a vampire). Certainly the accusations he was making before he died seemed loony albeit not as loony as the British police story of who killed him and how it happened.

 

Isn't it the other way around, the govt, Putin, cracking down on any business tychoon it doesn't like. I'd wager the same would happen to his 'friends' if they forgot their place.

Yes, Yeltsin was the one who sold Russia to a bunch of oligarchs for a song. Putin spent much of his time as President trying to claw some of it back. I might have some sympathy for the oligarchs if they weren't such a genuinely shady bunch of robber baron wanna-bes who were happy to gouge every rouble out of their country even if it meant reducing it to rubble.

 

Assigning Crimea and Sevastopol to the Ukraine administratively wasn't exactly a stroke of genius either. I foresee a lot of trouble yet to come out of that.

IIRC that is one thing which Uncle Joe can't be blamed for as it was Brezhnev (?) who did that, and it did involve a 'land swap' with the Russian SSR getting the Kouban ('mainland' to the east of Crimea) in return. It's certainly a potential problem, probably not in the short term now that Yanukovitch is president, more of Yuchenko might have seen it flare up quickly though

[Humodour]

Man obyknven is annoying. I can deal with brainwashed young kids but I can't deal with them spamming threads with horribly long risible rantings from conspiracy websites and authoritatively stating they are fact.

 

Incidentally, has lord of flies been seen lately?

[Walsingham]

I'm impressed, Putin is doing a better job of brainwashing the young than the communists ever did. At least back then everyone assumed whatever the government told them was a lie.

 

LOL. So so true.

[~Di]

Your post did sound rather "judgemental". You imply that a territory in another sovereign country is entitled to autonomy, that the same country has invaded one of its parts as if it was an act of war between two countries and pretty much implies that the Russian government is to blame for it. Accusing other forum members of being "indoctrinated", implying you know better than somebody living there doesn't really help.

 

North Ossetia and Abkhasia didn't exactly get a lot of sympathy from western Europe and the US when they decided that they would rather be a part of the Russian Federation than being part of Georgia, which tought me one thing, that western media have very little credibility as sources for the conflicts in the Caucasus (which often has its root causes found in history books rather than newspapers).

 

You criticize my questions as judgemental, when I am posing them to someone who posted a commentary about how the USA and UK are secreting helping the Chechen rebels to blow up Russians? This is a debate forum. I'm entitled to civilly question someone when they post unsourced material, and when their comments indicate that they do not appear to have a grasp of the underlying hostility or its causes.

 

Several here have done the same. Some have even referred to her as "brainwashed kid". Yet you saved your comment for me... and not the first time. But I would ask you to be consistent with your disapproval. And your drive-by snipes as well.

 

At any rate, I see she isn't responding to questions, just posting a bunch of anti-USA diatribes, so I will not go further with this discussion.

Edited April 4, 2010 by ~Di

[obyknven]

You know nothing of my people or the Russia. There is now more freedom in russia than in the US which is all about rules regulations and laws and stipulations! Your a prime example of a hateful american that knows nothing of other cultures.

Russia is a great country - beautiful, rich and powerful.

[Trenitay]

Yes, pictures of pretty buildings make everything ok.

[Gorgon]

What is that, the winter palace where her beloved Communists shot the emperor, his whole family, and their servants.

[Walsingham]

Obyknven, we object to your President precisely BECAUSE Russia is beautiful, rich, and powerful. He demeans Russia in the eyes of the World, he impoverishes Russia to his own gain, and Russia deserves better.

Edited April 4, 2010 by Walsingham

[obyknven]

What is that, the winter palace where her beloved Communists shot the emperor, his whole family, and their servants.

This is Ministry of Druids in Kazan. Built in 2008-2010. Modern Russia looks like this.

[obyknven]

Obyknev, we object to your President precisely BECAUSE Russia is beautiful, rich, and powerful. He demeans Russia in the eyes of the World, he impoverishes Russia to his own gain, and Russia deserve better.

Really?!

[Walsingham]

Obyknev, we object to your President precisely BECAUSE Russia is beautiful, rich, and powerful. He demeans Russia in the eyes of the World, he impoverishes Russia to his own gain, and Russia deserve better.

Really?!

That's your most coherent response?

 

[Gorgon]

We should have Druids on the payroll here in Denmark.

 

No, not really.

[Gorgon]

Obyknev, we object to your President precisely BECAUSE Russia is beautiful, rich, and powerful. He demeans Russia in the eyes of the World, he impoverishes Russia to his own gain, and Russia deserve better.

Really?!

That's your most coherent response?

 

I liked it.

[obyknven]

U.S. and other countries, simply want to steal our resources. We do not want to give. For that they hate us.

Edited April 4, 2010 by obyknven

[Gorth]

Justifiable or not, it wouldn't surprise me if a number of russians, young and old, sees Europe, USA and China the way it's illustrated.

[213374U]

U.S. and other countries, simply want to steal our resources. We do not want to give. For that they hate us.

That what they teach you at the Putinjugend rallies these days?

 

Heh, and here I thought the #1 source of income for Russia nowadays was actually tapping into her huge natural resources deposits. It's not that we hate you because "you don't want to give" -- it's that doing crazy **** like cutting off all of Eastern Europe's natural gas supply during winter to put political pressure on your increasingly western-leaning Ukrainian neighbors tends to sit badly with folks.

 

How are those SAM sales to Iran going, btw?

[obyknven]

How are those SAM sales to Iran going, btw?

You worried about arms sales? Then eat this:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5851XH20090906

 

There are no problems with this [s-300] contract. After all, these are purely defensive weapons, and any country has the right to buy them. I believe this could only worry those states that have plans to attack others.

[Gorgon]

Everybody that makes weapons sell them and no one can afford to let principle guide them too strongly in their choice of customers, that has always been the nature of the business.

[Gorgon]

From the article on US weapons sales.

 

a $2.1 billion jet fighter for Morocco and a $2 billion attack helicopter for Taiwan.

 

That must be some attack helicopter.

[213374U]

Everybody that makes weapons sell them and no one can afford to let principle guide them too strongly in their choice of customers, that has always been the nature of the business.

Yeah, realpolitik is a bitch. But that wasn't my point. Oby was going on about how poor Russia does nothing to earn criticism. On the one hand you have Medvedev and Obama making deals on strategic arms reductions, and on the other, you have them shifty Russkies selling top-of-the-line SAM systems to Iran that will be used to cover nuclear sites.

 

At least the US make a PR effort, in an attempt to keep a semblance of credibility and trust. The Russian neofascists, however, can't be arsed.

 

Butthurt much?

[Gorgon]

Everybody that makes weapons sell them and no one can afford to let principle guide them too strongly in their choice of customers, that has always been the nature of the business.

Butthurt much?

Begpardon ?

[213374U]

I was referring to the Russians, obviously not you.

[obyknven]

I was referring to the Russians, obviously not you.

We do not want your Butthurt.

[Gorgon]

I was referring to the Russians, obviously not you.

We do not want your Butthurt.

I'm going to leave that one well alone.