Healthcare in America

[Amentep]

Of course there are backroom deals. HELLO! U.S. POLITICS CALLING!

 

In every bill there are backroom deals. The only difference between Democrats and Republicans on this issue is that the Republicans can hide it better. If you think this is the first bill in the history of the United States that has ever had backroom deals done you are sadly naive.

 

I don't think the Republicans "hide it better"; I seem to recall (although specifics escape my hazy memory at this time) a number of instances where Republican backed bills that was unpopular enough with the other side resulted in a dissection of the "backroom deals" and "riders" on a bill. I think its mostly about how angry passage of a bill makes the other side (can we get a viable third party now? Or do away with the party system entirely? kplsthnxbai).

[Gfted1]

Of course there are backroom deals. HELLO! U.S. POLITICS CALLING!

 

In every bill there are backroom deals. The only difference between Democrats and Republicans on this issue is that the Republicans can hide it better. If you think this is the first bill in the history of the United States that has ever had backroom deals done you are sadly naive.

 

 

I know this will make Sand all fuzzy, but I have to agree. Has there EVER been a US congressional move without backhanders? Gfted1, you're a smart fellah and however strongly we both feel about this, you must recognise that point is awfully weak. I'm surprised you fielded it.

 

 

Of course there are backroom deals. HELLO! U.S. POLITICS CALLING!

 

In every bill there are backroom deals. The only difference between Democrats and Republicans on this issue is that the Republicans can hide it better. If you think this is the first bill in the history of the United States that has ever had backroom deals done you are sadly naive.

 

I don't think the Republicans "hide it better"; I seem to recall (although specifics escape my hazy memory at this time) a number of instances where Republican backed bills that was unpopular enough with the other side resulted in a dissection of the "backroom deals" and "riders" on a bill. I think its mostly about how angry passage of a bill makes the other side (can we get a viable third party now? Or do away with the party system entirely? kplsthnxbai).

 

 

Yes, of course there are always backroom deals. The Republicans had a real stinker of one during the Bush administration regarding Medicare/Medicaid. Thats not the point. The point is:

 

1) Poking holes in KK ridiculous pie-in-the-sky idea that this was passed for mom and country.

2) The bill only passed by 7 votes. Without these deals not even enough Democrats would have voted to pass it!

 

And that makes the whole think stink to hell. If a bill cant pass on its own merits, its ok to buy the votes? Are you people insane?

[Aram]

Dunno. I'd get an opinion from a psychiatrist but they're too expensive.

Edited March 23, 2010 by Aram

[Gfted1]

Not for long, soon we'll all be paying for your shrink.

[Killian Kalthorne]

If a bill cant pass on its own merits, its ok to buy the votes? Are you people insane?

 

Again, you act like this is the first time this has happen. Is it ok? Nope. Is it how U.S. politics is played? Yep.

 

Always have and always will.

Edited March 23, 2010 by Killian Kalthorne

[Amentep]

Yes, of course there are always backroom deals. The Republicans had a real stinker of one during the Bush administration regarding Medicare/Medicaid. Thats not the point. The point is:

 

1) Poking holes in KK ridiculous pie-in-the-sky idea that this was passed for mom and country.

2) The bill only passed by 7 votes. Without these deals not even enough Democrats would have voted to pass it!

 

And that makes the whole think stink to hell. If a bill cant pass on its own merits, its ok to buy the votes? Are you people insane?

 

I don't believe I ever said it was okay to buy votes, thank you. That both sides are equally corrupt (IMO at least) was my point.

[Aram]

Man. The other day my old lady neighbor's house was on fire and the fire department was putting it out on my dollar, so I stood in their driveway and shouted bitch put it out your damn self.

[Killian Kalthorne]

They are politicians. Corruption and politics go hand and hand.

[Aram]

If politicians were honest, Democrats would have skipped the bill that hands billions in profits to the insurance companies and come up with one where we wouldn't need insurance companies at all. One thing people need to realize is corruption always works in capitalism's favor, not the other way around. Politicians don't become corrupt for the fun of it.

[Gfted1]

Again, you act like this is the first time this has happen. Is it ok? Nope. Is it how U.S. politics is played? Yep.

 

Always have and always will.

 

Yes, but no other bill has had this large a scope, that FORCES every single citizen into a program nobody voted for. Not all pigs are created equally. While your busy giggling and high five-ing that this "burden" of raising yourself has been lifted from your shoulders you should be weeping for your country.

[Aram]

gifted you're a horse's ass

[Gfted1]

I don't believe I ever said it was okay to buy votes, thank you. That both sides are equally corrupt (IMO at least) was my point.

 

Yeah, Im not sure why I clicked your post. Just collateral damage in my "quote" button clicking frenzy.

[Junai]

If politicians were honest, Democrats would have skipped the bill that hands billions in profits to the insurance companies and come up with one where we wouldn't need insurance companies at all.

They'd snipe him..

Change.. comes little by little.

 

 

Soon you're.. COMMIES!.. MUHAHAHA...

 

erm..

 

J.

[Killian Kalthorne]

Yes, but no other bill has had this large a scope, that FORCES every single citizen into a program nobody voted for. Not all pigs are created equally. While your busy giggling and high five-ing that this "burden" of raising yourself has been lifted from your shoulders you should be weeping for your country.

 

You don't seem to know me very well, Gifted1. I want this to happen not to get the benefits, but to see this country tear itself apart. I firmly believe that this country would be better off if it was split into smaller nations. Health care is one of the biggest schism in this country. If we continue to follow schism after schism, our politicians will cause a civil war along ideological lines which the end result would be a sundered country.

 

United we fall. Divided we stand.

Edited March 23, 2010 by Killian Kalthorne

[Gfted1]

gifted you're a horse's ass

 

 

Waaaaa...............

[Amentep]

Man. The other day my old lady neighbor's house was on fire and the fire department was putting it out on my dollar, so I stood in their driveway and shouted bitch put it out your damn self.

 

To be fair to Gfted1, I believe (and may or may not be correct) that the difference in this case would be that the neighbor was also paying taxes into the system that funds the fire department. I think he feels that the health care for all as designed in this bill would create a system that would benefit individuals who had no intention of paying into and maintaining the system that they're using. There's also a minor public good in containing fires rather than letting Mrs. O'Leary's cow burn down Chicago that I don't think Gfted1 sees as translatable in the same way with basic public health. If Gfted1's neighbor without insurance breaks his leg it doesn't increase Gfted1's chance of breaking his leg; this just isn't the case with a fire at his neighbor's house that could spread to his own home. The only case where it would matter would be in massive outbreaks and face it the government is going to intervene in a pandemic whether there's universal health care or not.

[Pidesco]

Man. The other day my old lady neighbor's house was on fire and the fire department was putting it out on my dollar, so I stood in their driveway and shouted bitch put it out your damn self.

 

 

I'd like to hear Gifted1's reply to this statement.

[Gfted1]

I want this to happen not to get the benefits, but to see this country tear itself apart.

 

Well, I happen to love my country and its statements like that that make me wish there was a little button on my side that, when depressed, would send a fist out on your side.

Edited March 23, 2010 by Gfted1

[Killian Kalthorne]

Amentep, we all are paying taxes in some form or another into the government. May they be property taxes, taxes on the phone and utility bill, income taxes, sales taxes, and what not. This health reform is going to be paid by these taxes we all are paying into.

[Gfted1]

I'd like to hear Gifted1's reply to this statement.

 

 

See Amentep's response, hes much more eloquent than I.

[Killian Kalthorne]

I want this to happen not to get the benefits, but to see this country tear itself apart.

 

Well, I happen to love my country and its statements like that that make me wish the was a little button on my side that, when depressed, would send a fist out on your side.

 

Really? What is to love about this country? We have politicians that drip with corruption. We have states who think it is to okay to amend their constitution to discriminate minorities. We have religious nut jobs that want to put leash laws on woman and control their wombs. Our country's debt is owned by an enemy power.

 

What is to love about this country, Gifted1?

[Gfted1]

This health reform is going to be paid by these taxes we all are paying into.

 

 

Um, no. The ones most in need of this bill probably do not make enough to pay Federal taxes.

[Amentep]

Yes, but no other bill has had this large a scope, that FORCES every single citizen into a program nobody voted for. Not all pigs are created equally. While your busy giggling and high five-ing that this "burden" of raising yourself has been lifted from your shoulders you should be weeping for your country.

 

You don't seem to know me very well, Gifted1. I want this to happen not to get the benefits, but to see this country tear itself apart. I firmly believe that this country would be better off if it was split into smaller nations. Health care is one of the biggest schism in this country. If we continue to follow schism after schism, our politicians will cause a civil war along ideological lines which the end result would be a sundered country.

 

United we fall. Divided we stand.

 

The LAST Civil War worked out so well, didn't it?

[Gfted1]

What is to love about this country, Gifted1?

 

My (rapidly waning) freedoms. I dont think you have any concept of what its like to live in a non-Western country.

[Killian Kalthorne]

The LAST Civil War worked out so well, didn't it?

 

Except for the Reconstruction bull, we became a stronger nation and a stronger people for it.