Concern for the difficulty

[L!]

Only read recently about the leaked SEGA information on Alpha Protocol about it being too hard and most likely for the reason of the delay.

 

But never mind about that, let them polish all they want, what we should worry about is the possibility of the game being made more easy, a grave concern. Who knows what the man thought was hard, maybe he tried to rush in and kill everybody instead of doing a different approach, but damn it, don't dumb the game down, I've been waiting too long for this sort of game.

 

What I mean by the dumbing down, well, having the game tell you how to execute a mission every step of the way, having the game aim for you, having the AI that couldn't outsmart a door. Not to mention, if the games focused on telling you how to play it, there will be no time for those multiple ways of getting past something, like in Hitman Bloodmoney, with there being multiple ways to assassinate your target, that would be really weak not to have that in this sort of game.

 

Of course, this could all be pointless worry, who knows what Obsidian are changing with the game right now, but I'd hate to have my dream game suffer just to make sure everyone can play it, give the player some space and let them think for themselves as to how they should play it!

 

Am I worrying for nothing?

[Cl_Flushentityhero]

I thought the exact complaint was that the quasi-tutorial was too difficult. If I'm correct in that, then you're probably worrying for nothing.

[kreese12]

Ya OP that has been one of my concerns too. I worry that some non-gamer game trier guy at SEGA might've seen AP in action and thought it was too difficult when it fact it was more that he just wasn't playing it right. I hope that the team is going to be changing the difficulty balance much that they include a 'realistic' mode with the difficulty set as they originally though best.

 

Most games I find far too easy and nothing makes me lose interest faster. I hope AP has the option of being as hard as heck.

 

I'm playing Dragon Age right now and I'm just loving the battles on 'hard' mode. It's not the most original game but it is a fantastic title. Great modern implementation of a more 'classic' old-school PC RPG...

[Oner]

IIRC it was a Sony and not a SEGA guy.

[kreese12]

Err Sony? What does -- hang on a second...I have to do some googling...

[L!]

Third top secret down.

 

http://www.seganerds.com/2009/09/22/sega-l...ny-information/

 

Alpha Protocol

Michael Foster, product evaluator, said AP felt barely RPG. Initial level too challenging for players. “Mass Effect felt more RPG.”

Review notes sent to John Merlino a few weeks prior. After meeting Gerald mentioned AP is a high priority for his team.

 

I didn't really get the feeling that the game lacked RPG , looked like it had plenty to me (oh well, more the better). And he is just talking about the first level, but still, I don't want Obsidian getting the wrong ideas, nobody likes hand holding!

Edited November 11, 2009 by L

[Slowtrain]

Game difficulty should never really be an issue for any game as long as there is some sort of difficulty slider:

 

Easy should be just that: easy. For n00bs amd for those who just want to play the game to experience the story without being overly inconvenienced.

 

Normal should be somewhat challenging but not punishing.

 

Hard should make you sweat.

 

 

The problem is too often there isn't a huge difficulty between the difficulty settings. I was playing Fallout 3 for the longest time on what I thought was Normal but one day I happened to be looking for video options and not I hiced that the difficulty was on Hard and had been all the time. I played through the Witcher several times on Normal then tried it on hard and didn't even notice a difference.

 

Really, I don't think that is acceptable. Hard should mean "hard" not "a bit more difficult than normal."

[Cl_Flushentityhero]

While I agree with train in theory, I'm not sure I personally have ever been really flummoxed because a game was too easy. I've had games where some of the features/abilities were unnecessary to beat them, but that was just one point against the game and didn't ruin my overall enjoyment.

 

On the other hand, some of my favorite games have famously high difficulty. It's not the difficulty that makes them fun though, it's because the gameplay was designed around certain things that wouldn't be necessary if it was easier. If Devil May Cry allowed you to simply wade in and button mash like God of War, I probably never would've figured out what was particularly interesting about the game beyond the stylish aesthetics.

 

So yes, difficulty can contribute to the game, but only if the core mechanics are deep and balanced enough to make it worth the effort. This is even harder for WRPGs because they are usually expected to offer a variety of approaches and balance them all, at least in fun if not in pure difficulty.

 

If you ask me, particularly in a spy game, the guns-blazing approach should if anything be the most difficult, but gratifying to pull off. Subtlety, by contrast, should be the path of least resistance. Usually WRPG conventions dictate that "fighter" is the easiest way to play a game, and I think that's bollocks. I happen to know a few "fighters" from various walks of life, and a common sentiment is that a lot of situations either were or could've been much easier using a non-combat approach.

 

That's kind of off-topic though. Ideally yes, not only should there be multiple difficulties, but an actual slider that allows you to select the exact sweet spot for your preferences. Heck, give players control over a variety of difficulty-related settings so they can craft their own experience. The countless complaints about Far Cry 2's low weapon damage wouldn't have happened if players could scale it to their liking.

[Alvin Nelson]

We have a different modes in our game to accommodate both the hardcore gamers that like really difficult games, for those who like a bit of a challenge but nothing too rough, and for those who just want to play for the storyline. Have no fear! It's even tough for some devs!

[Slowtrain]

We have a different modes in our game to accommodate both the hardcore gamers that like really difficult games, for those who like a bit of a challenge but nothing too rough, and for those who just want to play for the storyline. Have no fear! It's even tough for some devs!

 

 

Awesome.

 

Does the game have one hit kills? On both your pc and npcs? MAybe on hard diffculty?

[Alvin Nelson]

We have a different modes in our game to accommodate both the hardcore gamers that like really difficult games, for those who like a bit of a challenge but nothing too rough, and for those who just want to play for the storyline. Have no fear! It's even tough for some devs!

 

 

Awesome.

 

Does the game have one hit kills? On both your pc and npcs? MAybe on hard diffculty?

 

It could be possible, depending on your spec.

[Slowtrain]

We have a different modes in our game to accommodate both the hardcore gamers that like really difficult games, for those who like a bit of a challenge but nothing too rough, and for those who just want to play for the storyline. Have no fear! It's even tough for some devs!

 

 

Awesome.

 

Does the game have one hit kills? On both your pc and npcs? MAybe on hard diffculty?

 

It could be possible, depending on your spec.

 

 

This game is going to be awesome. Can't wait.

[kreese12]

We have a different modes in our game to accommodate both the hardcore gamers that like really difficult games, for those who like a bit of a challenge but nothing too rough, and for those who just want to play for the storyline. Have no fear! It's even tough for some devs!

 

Great ! I like I like.

[L!]

We have a different modes in our game to accommodate both the hardcore gamers that like really difficult games, for those who like a bit of a challenge but nothing too rough, and for those who just want to play for the storyline. Have no fear! It's even tough for some devs!

 

Define what the higher difficulty does? If it's just stronger enemies, then I'll be disappointed.

[alanschu]

Just curious, what would you like from higher difficulty?

[L!]

Well, for it to be overall much harder then the previous difficulty.

 

Let's say for example, that easy mode allows an onscreen map showing where the enemies are, onscreen details of your conditions and ammo you have etc, quick regenerative health, gives tips as to how to get past something if you need them, enemy AI isn't that intelligent and doesn't do much damage/very weak to taking damage/stands still when in combat.

 

Now, let's say the normal mode allows an onscreen map which you'll have to find but doesn't shows where enemies are, the HUD is just showing you the bare bones of what you need to see on screen, requires a health pack to get normal regenerative health, only gives tips on points where it's needed to progress through the game, enemy AI is a bit more sharp with regular patrols and does moderate damage during combat/takes a fair amount of damage/moves around when in combat.

 

Then we get to a hard mode, no onscreen map, no onscreen details, requires health pack for slow regenerative health (and all items are expensive), no tips, enemy AI is intelligent with constant patrols and do critical hits/have strong resistance against damage or avoiding take damage/takes cover during combat and alternates cover every few seconds.

 

 

Of course, these just being examples, I would love to see developers exploring how hard they can make a game with new ways. And it isn't just the difficulty I'm concerned for, it's the fate of those diverse Deus Ex/Hitman moments like when you see an enemy walking around in an open area, do you take him head on, do sneak past him, do you shoot that surprising conveniently placed box he always stands under to take a smoke break, do you throw a copy of the latest playboy out in the open and wait for him to pick it up so you can sneak behind and shiv him?

 

Gimme what I want yo!

[mkreku]

For good difficulty levels, check out Crysis. On easy, you'll see little arrows pointing at where the grenades people throw at you are and the North Koreans speak English. On hard, the grenades land silently by your feet, you have no cross hair (which is awesome!) and you won't understand a word any enemy says.

 

Much better than just having difficulty level easy = 1, normal = 2, hard = 3, enemy hitpoints = difficulty level * 1000.

[alanschu]

I can see the Hitman analogy since it pretty much follows what you described. Though I find the comparison to Deus Ex a bit odd. IIRC, wasn't the difficulty for Deus Ex just more damage?

[Cl_Flushentityhero]

I can see the Hitman analogy since it pretty much follows what you described. Though I find the comparison to Deus Ex a bit odd. IIRC, wasn't the difficulty for Deus Ex just more damage?

 

Possibly, though I thought "realistic" mode made enemies die quicker as well. I could be wrong, since I didn't play any other difficulties at length.

[Slowtrain]

I think Alan is right about DX. Realistic gave a 4x damage multiplier to enemies damage. Which when combined with the standard 2x damage multiplier for headshots, gave enemies damage an 8x multiplier on headshots. Which made most weapons instantly lethal on headshots, even the wimpy stealth pistol.

[Oner]

You had that damage multiplier too AFAIK. I usually go for head shots so I'm not sure.

[Slowtrain]

You had that damage multiplier too AFAIK. I usually go for head shots so I'm not sure.

 

 

You might be right. Definitely with the 2x multplier for the head. I could never quite figure out how the damage that JC did was calculated. Like Flush I never played mucgh at the other difficulties though since Realistic was so ideal for trhe DX experience.

[alanschu]

I would be very surprised if the game had harder to kill enemies on easier difficulty.

[Oner]

The point is more like you die harder. MJ12 commandos on easy have to shoot several bursts into your head even without the ballistic armor augmentation.

Enemies being tougher doesn't mean much when you play a stealthier strike-from-the-shadows/boom-head-shot game.

[L!]

I can see the Hitman analogy since it pretty much follows what you described. Though I find the comparison to Deus Ex a bit odd. IIRC, wasn't the difficulty for Deus Ex just more damage?

 

I was actually referring to Hitman and Deus Ex for their multiple ways of getting past obstacles, and how easy focused difficulty can take you away from that, not the difficulties from those games (though hitman left an impression on me).

 

This was the point of my concern, a fear of linearity just to make the game more accessible for a casual user.