Modern Literature.. or Wheel of Time book 12 arriving..

[Raithe]

Let's not turn this into a love/hate LotR flamefest, ok?

 

Books 7-10 are pretty bad at places, but Knife of Dreams really does bring it back and apparently the Gathering Storm is supposed to be super special awesome. If anyone wants to catch up, just get the audio books. You can do other stuff while listening to them and the narrators are really good.

 

The audio books are interesting , but there is a small problem for people who don't already have a grasp of the character names. A couple of people I know who tried listening to them kept getting confused by how some of the characters names sound similar when spoken. Or at least, sounded similar when they listened to the audio books.

[Purkake]

I started with the audio books and still get annoyed when the two narrators pronounce some stuff differently and people on the official podcast made me want to tear my hair out.

 

At least the audio books have the canon pronunciation, others be damned

 

How many ways are there to pronounce Avendoraldera, Tel'aran'rhiod or Far Dareis Mai?

Edited October 25, 2009 by Purkake

[Raithe]

I've got the audio books of 1-11 on my ipod... Although I don't think I've ever actually sat down and listened all the way through on it

[Guard Dog]

I've read LotR many times over the years and I always thought it was a great story told somewhat ponderously. As an adveture story it is good but I never thought it was a crowning achievement in western literature and I've never understood the folks who do. And I've found most of the one's who do are Brits. I guess they might be just national pride but considering the contributions of Bitish writers like, oh I dont know, Milton, Bacon, Shakespere, Austin, Mallory, Dickens, you might have heard of these folks, far outshine anything Tolkien wrote?

 

In that scope the Wheel of Time series wouldn't even register.

[HoonDing]

But I'm willing to admit thats just how I feel when I've read it..

That and the minor annoying things.. like if the Eagles were smart enough to rescue Gandalf.. and were capable of flying into Mordor to rescue Sam and Frodo.. why no-one thought to put the one ring in a packet, tie it to an Eagle's leg and say "hey, fly into mordor and drop this off in Mt.Doom would ya?"

Same reason for why in most fantasy stories the Gods don't simply come over and whack the bad guys.

Edited October 25, 2009 by virumor

[Hurlshort]

I've read LotR many times over the years and I always thought it was a great story told somewhat ponderously. As an adveture story it is good but I never thought it was a crowning achievement in western literature and I've never understood the folks who do. And I've found most of the one's who do are Brits. I guess they might be just national pride but considering the contributions of Bitish writers like, oh I dont know, Milton, Bacon, Shakespere, Austin, Mallory, Dickens, you might have heard of these folks, far outshine anything Tolkien wrote?

 

I always thought it was more because it triggered the whole fantasy genre. I know there were precursors, but it seemed to really take off after Tolkein.

[Raithe]

I always thought it was more because it triggered the whole fantasy genre. I know there were precursors, but it seemed to really take off after Tolkein.

 

It didn't so much trigger it, as push the epic fantasy into public perception, which made it "popular" as opposed to more of a subcategory. Like it was with Conan.

 

But I'm one of those who didn't think LotR was a good read, but I do admire the effect it had on pushing fantasy literature in general.

[Purkake]

While the Wheel of Time series certainly has some Tolkien influences, it is much more grounded in reality and more about characters/the world than a single epic journey.

[Raithe]

And Tolkien practically created the idea of "tree-hugging elves" because part of the epic story was based on his "industrialisation = evil, green fields & forests = good".

To be fair, that was because he enjoyed country life and didn't like how many of the places of his childhood had been changed in the name of "progress".

 

I do tend to feel the Wheel of Time feels more organic then LotR, the characters grow and evolve in a much more fluid manner then those in LotR.

Although I'm willing to admit that might just be a personal bias because I knew a lot about how LotR came about, whereas the WoT I don't.

[HoonDing]

Elves weren't tree-huggers in Tolkien's stories, in LOTR they basically represented stasis. Their Rings' power was to render their realms invulnerable to the ravages of time. Tolkien created the Ents to represent the struggle between technology & nature.

 

And Tolkien practically created the idea of "tree-hugging elves" because part of the epic story was based on his "industrialisation = evil, green fields & forests = good".

I do tend to feel the Wheel of Time feels more organic then LotR, the characters grow and evolve in a much more fluid manner then those in LotR.

I prefer Tolkien's archetypes over the way the majority of Jordan's characters evolve into whiny, insufferable emo kids. Mat's the only one whose character basically stayed the same... and ironically only Nynaeve evolved in a positive way.

Edited October 25, 2009 by virumor

[Purkake]

Speaking of WoT, the Mock summaries are pretty hilarious. They are full of spoilers, so watch out if you haven't read the books.

[Slowtrain]

If nothing else I think RJ deserves a lot of credit for being able to milk his mediocre fantasy drivel all the way until his death.

 

 

Although I have to admit I stopped reading at book 5, I think. Which was when I realized I had juist read through 1000 pages and nothing had happened.

 

At least Tolkien had the decency to just chuck it all out there in one book and be done with it.

[Shryke]

right so it's out now - i have a friend that works in a bookstore and she's scored a copy for me and is meeting me after work today to give it to me

 

already had a big wtf moment spoiled for me, but apparently there's quite a bit of that with a couple of characters

[Purkake]

I'm not spoiled at all, yay!

 

The audiobook is out on Audible as well, but I'm just finishing my Lord of Chaos re-read, so the new book will have to wait.

[Raithe]

Well amazon delivered my copy the other day.. I managed to block out some time and boom , about 7 hours later I had a finished book in my lap thinking "dang, now I've got to wait a year for Towers of Midnight"...

 

There wasn't too much that struck me as jarringly non-jordan writing. A couple of things I wasn't too sure on, but they do tend to have that bounce from character to character...

 

I'll go with the "still a damn enjoyable read" and a few things to make the mind tick over and go "hmm.. that could mean...."

[Nightshape]

Man this book is a brick, I'm taking it slow, like one would with a fine wine, absorbing it all at once may be like drinking a bottle of vodka.

[Guard Dog]

Okay, I said I was going to wait but...I didn't. It took a week but I read it. All in all a pretty good book. Nice to see plot lines beginning to wrap up and thankfully no new ones were started. This book moved the story forward which is a good thing because saying it had been stalling out would be too kind.

 

One thought I had on the plot though:

Min is very lucky to have Robert Jordan as a writer and not George RR Martin. She would have been toast otherwise.

 

[kirottu]

I finished it yesterday or today, well, it was 4 am.

 

It was good to see the 12th book continued the good momentum that started with 11th book. I may go so far and I say the best scene so far in the whole series happened in this book:

The whole "your dress is green" thing. Verin instantly became one of my favourite characters.

 

[Purkake]

I'm up to Winter's Heart on my re-read. I'll get to TGS... eventually.

[Shryke]

finally got round to reading and finishing it

 

zomg finally some closure to plotlines!

[Purkake]

Just finished it. Awesome book, the different writing style didn't really bother me. Also, that's an impressive amount of loose ends Brandon managed to tie up in this book, with two books still coming he might actually finish everything up nicely.

 

 

It's nice to see Rand finally make peace with himself and his mad Lews Therin personality. Maybe he'll be able to lose the arrogant douche persona and actually do what is necessary like kneeling before Egwene and making alliances instead of conquering everyone.

 

Speaking of which, Egwene's parts were awesome, she really finished her arc and become badass leader that the White Tower needed. Also, sneaky Verin was great, going out with a bang. I love that she had a whole bag of sealed letters to set other plans into motion after her death.

 

 

Can't wait for the next book.

 

EDIT: The 13th Depository has some good in-depth analysis on the book, if anyone is interested.

Edited December 10, 2009 by Purkake

[HoonDing]

It's nice to see Rand finally make peace with himself and his mad Lews Therin personality. Maybe he'll be able to lose the arrogant douche persona and actually do what is necessary like kneeling before Egwene and making alliances instead of conquering everyone.

 

Speaking of which, Egwene's parts were awesome, she really finished her arc and become badass leader that the White Tower needed. Also, sneaky Verin was great, going out with a bang. I love that she had a whole bag of sealed letters to set other plans into motion after her death.

 

If Rand would only stick to blowing stuff up instead of whining about his Napolitan ice-cream he wouldn't be so insufferable. I hope Demandred is going to kick his ass. He's become as much a weenie as Perrin.

 

And god, how I hate that Cadsuane chick and the whole "Oh noes, a woman pulls her braid or casts a glare." shtick.

 

[SteveThaiBinh]

zomg finally some closure to plotlines!

Yes, I guess that was the clearest indication that Jordan himself wasn't writing it. If, like me, you're only continuing to read this series because you want to find out what happens to these characters (and in the past four books or so, what happens to these characters is "not very much at all", then you'll enjoy this book. The story actually moves forward, and an ending does seem to be in sight.

 

I also got the audiobook (from iTunes) since the books themselves are not available here, and was impressed by the narration.

[kirottu]

zomg finally some closure to plotlines!

Yes, I guess that was the clearest indication that Jordan himself wasn't writing it.

 

No, it

[Raithe]

It's always the trouble with a certain amount of intricate plotting on those epic scales... how much detail you can spend on the characters developing in certain ways and moving around the "chessboard" in preperation for those end sequences and big finishes..

 

The first couple of books were introduction, then I'd say 4-6 were the "big ball starting to move" areas and the world really starting to notice and be affected.. then 7-10 was the orchestration, the laying out of gambits and the moving into place. Starting with book 11, and now with 12 it's the final phase and the big sweeping finish.

 

Some people enjoy that sort of pace, some don't. But that's the way it's felt to my mind.. (now I'm prepared for the scorn to be heaped on my head...)