Kotaku article!

[RPGmasterBoo]

That is because you see it as such. The tentflaps are tentflaps, the catfish a catfish and the tree is a tree. It is your mind that is drawing these conclusions. I never even saw it that way before you pointed it out, and that is because I look at the beautiful side of it, the apparent softness of the elf's skin, the dreamy expression on the lady of the lake, and the wild natural look of the dryad. You look only at the sexual and hence you see vaginas and penises everywhere, because in essence that's all you want to see.

 

Sexual gratification goes both ways last time I checked BTW.

 

 

Simply because you weren't able to see them, doesn't mean they aren't there. I do find it absolutely delightful that you make a snide remark about how he only sees them because he wants to see them.

 

However, given your rather obvious love of the Witcher, I'm not at all surprised you were never able to see it. You didn't want to, because it'd taint your perspective of it.

 

 

See, it's easy to have fun like this.

 

I like the Witcher even with its obvious flaws (and it does have a whole lot of them), but there is no game I unquestioningly adore.

 

Scanning my comments for something to b!tch about, is a sign of excessive free time.

[alanschu]

I think the amount of acceptance for either of those examples is going to vary a lot by enviornment and peer group.

 

Of course.

 

Take things down small enough, and you'll find places where an open homosexual is perfectly accepted and not treated differently. Move somewhere else, and you'll find a similar sample size where an open homosexual puts his life in jeopardy by being open about it. The joys of macro-level vs micro-level sociology.

 

 

All things take place in a sociological context. My inquiry was just a supposition, but obviously it comes from my own personal experiences and impressions of the sociological contexts I am familiar with.

 

I am a big fan of empiricism however. Are there examples of places (preferably macro) where young women acting masculine is MORE ostracized than young men acting feminine?

Edited September 1, 2009 by alanschu

[alanschu]

I like the Witcher even with its obvious flaws (and it does have a whole lot of them), but there is no game I unquestioningly adore.

 

That's nice. Your defense of the game (and the sexual promiscuity of the main character for that matter) is very apparent in other threads.

 

 

Scanning my comments for something to b!tch about, is a sign of excessive free time.

 

So is tossing in random insults at the end of your posts.

 

 

However, I don't recall scanning your comments for something to bitch about. So I guess I'm in the clear there

[Slowtrain]

I think the amount of acceptance for either of those examples is going to vary a lot by enviornment and peer group.

 

Of course.

 

Take things down small enough, and you'll find places where an open homosexual is perfectly accepted and not treated differently. Move somewhere else, and you'll find a similar sample size where an open homosexual puts his life in jeopardy by being open about it. The joys of macro-level vs micro-level sociology.

 

 

All things take place in a sociological context. My inquiry was just a supposition, but obviously it comes from my own personal experiences and impressions of the sociological contexts I am familiar with.

 

I am a big fan of empiricism however. Are there examples of places (preferably macro) where young women acting masculine is MORE ostracized than young men acting feminine?

 

 

I basically would agree that gay men generally provoke a stronger and widespread reaction than gay women, although I have heard people say some really unpleasant thing about gay women. I'm only hesitant because I think there can be so much variation that it renders generalizations difficult.

 

But effeminate young man and tomboy are not the same thing as gay men and women. The football club might beat up the young man and the cheerleaders might ostracize the tomboy, but that maybe more just a product of being a kid than anything else.

 

If we want to discuss gays men and gay women, we should probably talk about gay men and gay women and not effeminate your men and tomboys, neither of whom may be gay to begin with.

[Gfted1]

I dont think the lack of acceptance for homosexuality is due to fears over a male lowering himself to being like a woman, but more based on the fact that its a rather large divergence from societal norms. I think anything that strays too far off the norms of the society you live in suffers the same ostricism. After all "tomboy" is not complimentary, we are not elevating the female for acting male, we are specifically point out how that female is different from the female norm.

 

 

Of course it's a divergence from societal norms. That's just a statement of the obvious though, rather than providing any sort of reason. If it wasn't a divergence from societal norms, it wouldn't be an issue at all.

 

Tomboy only applies to younger women. However, a "tomboy" is certainly more accepted than an effeminate young man. Why is that? Both are divergences from societal norms, yet one will be significantly more ostracized than the other. Why is that?

 

 

Because its a "mans world" and men are expected to be "manly"? IMO, in our "mans world", being an effeminate male (even if straight), or being gay, is a sign of weakness when compared to the male norm, not because we think that person wants to be a female and we think less of females. I also think our male dominated society, on some level, finds female homosexuality to be arousing, thus more acceptable, but that may just be me.

[alanschu]

Tomboys and effeminate young men were just brought in more as a corollary than anything else. I don't think anyone here meant to imply they are related to homosexuality.

 

However, they are examples of gender expectations that society has. These expectations are also likely related to our acceptance of homosexual females vs homosexual males.

 

 

EDIT: Note to self, use quote function

 

 

I'll respond to your post Gifted in a little bit.

Edited September 1, 2009 by alanschu

[Oner]

Yeah, there's definitely some valid points in here. Especially the way that games tend to treat sex as the "end point" of relationships, but also with respect to the "keep talking to me and I'll have sex with you" thought process. That definitely really came through in Mass Effect, much more than in KotOR.

I wonder, if there was a "keep talking to me and I'll have sex with you" option in games, and someone complains about it, I'm sure we could accuse them of being discriminative towards nymphomaniacs.