Dragon Age Origins

[Morgoth]

There aren't really any serious attempts to make games that appeal to 25+ year old gamers. The only genuine attempt I can think of would be Heavy Rain, and that isn't even an RPG.

[RPGmasterBoo]

I still feel the writers of the game didn't really take advantage of the "mature" setting. They handled it like amateurs. Bad swearing, sex and slavery doesn't make it more serious, or tasty for adult gamers. Overall I feel TW was a half-hearted attempt to compete with Bioware etc. And don't get me started about the bad writing and the pale characters, or the overall setting, which didn't make a lot of sense to me. Not to mention the so called "moral" choices which were basically a joke.

While Bioware isn't that much better, they deliver at least a cohesive experience. They understand at least the basics of storytelling.

 

The Witcher had its flaws, and lack of polish but the underlying experience was fresh and original. I've personally participated in discussions and the general consensus amongst a very large crowd of veteran RPG gamers was that it was a superior product to almost everything that came out since BGII.

 

Its not Torment but, what is?

 

True their pacing is better. But their stories are all the same from KOTOR onwards. They are not even trying to break the fairytale good/evil mold. The alignment systems shows this. Their gameplay is devolving to a mind bogglingly stupid level, at the point where you can go through the games blindfolded. Etc etc.

Edited August 5, 2009 by RPGmasterBoo

[Niten_Ryu]

Geralt is like modern day rock superstar... except rockstars don't have to bother with flowers

 

The Witcher was the right kind of mature game for me.

[alanschu]

True their pacing is better. But their stories are all the same from KOTOR onwards. They are not even trying to break the fairytale good/evil mold. The alignment systems shows this. Their gameplay is devolving to a mind bogglingly stupid level, at the point where you can go through the games blindfolded. Etc etc.

 

Which alignment system are you referring to for DA?

[RPGmasterBoo]

Which alignment system are you referring to for DA?

 

DA isn't out, therefore it cant really be discussed yet. It could be the next best thing since pre sliced bread, or it could be just like all its predecessors. No use commenting.

[Purkake]

Which alignment system are you referring to for DA?

 

DA isn't out, therefore it cant really be discussed yet. It could be the next best thing since pre sliced bread, or it could be just like all its predecessors. No use commenting.

 

I believe they said there won't be any good/evil meter.

[Morgoth]

There is no alignment system in DA, IIRC. There are the choices you make, and you have to live with it. No need for a stupid good/evil bar.

[Volourn]

"The Witcher did it right because its developers did what they wanted - political correctness be damned. Plus they were mature people working to please a mature crowd."

 

TW was *not* mature. The game had nudey cards that added nothing to the game (outside of b00bies). How the heck is that mature?

 

 

"general consensus amongst a very large crowd of veteran RPG gamers was that it was a superior product to almost everything that came out since BGII."

 

And, there's a general concensus amongst a very large crowd of veteran RPG gamers that it was a very inferior product. *shrug* You should stick speaking for yourself instead of some invisible group that cna't even agree with each other, anyways.

 

 

"But their stories are all the same from KOTOR onwards"

 

Not true.

 

KOTOR, JE, and ME all have different stories.

 

 

"This kind of not pompous storytelling, unburdened with moral absolutes is probably only seen in fallout 1 and 2"

 

Do not comapre TW positively to F01, or FO2. That's insulting those awesoem games with a piece of crap like TW.

 

 

 

"Please let us not forget that the main focus in the game seems to be on the romances in the game, and the possible love (sex) acts, it will allow the player character to have within the game with different NPCs, depending on his or her choice."

 

Simply not true.

[Purkake]

There is no alignment system in DA, IIRC. There are the choices you make, and you have to live with it. No need for a stupid good/evil bar.

 

We replied at the same time!

 

[Morgoth]

Yay and you were a second faster you bastard!

[RPGmasterBoo]

TW was *not* mature. The game had nudey cards that added nothing to the game (outside of b00bies). How the heck is that mature?

 

 

"general consensus amongst a very large crowd of veteran RPG gamers was that it was a superior product to almost everything that came out since BGII."

 

 

"But their stories are all the same from KOTOR onwards"

 

Not true.

 

KOTOR, JE, and ME all have different stories.

 

 

"This kind of not pompous storytelling, unburdened with moral absolutes is probably only seen in fallout 1 and 2"

 

Do not comapre TW positively to F01, or FO2. That's insulting those awesoem games with a piece of crap like TW.

 

Your focus on nude cards really shows you didn't even consider the game properly. Its a lame argument - the equivalent of me saying that Jade is a stupid arcade game because it has a flying minigame.

 

I can name these people, and I know their gaming background. If you can name yours as well and their arguments- fine.

 

Superficially different, the basic setup of the games is the same. I should have replaced stories with gameplay, and overall game design. My mistake.

[skuld1]

Which alignment system are you referring to for DA?

 

DA isn't out, therefore it cant really be discussed yet. It could be the next best thing since pre sliced bread, or it could be just like all its predecessors. No use commenting.

 

'No use commenting' ... yet you have already passed judgment on DA (see post #91) declaring that 'it won't do it correctly'

Edited August 5, 2009 by skuld1

[Volourn]

"I can name these people, and I know their gaming background. If you can name yours as well and their arguments- fine"

 

A good protion of the Codex dislikes TW. That place has tons of people arguing on both sides. And, i seriously doubt you can name 'a large aportion of a very large crowd' by name unless your definition of 'large crowd' is a dozen people. L0L

 

 

"Your focus on nude cards really shows you didn't even consider the game properly. Its a lame argument - the equivalent of me saying that Jade is a stupid arcade game because it has a flying minigame."

 

Nonsense. Not the same thing. Your claim is that TW was a mature game. It isn't. A game that rewards you with nudey cards for having sex is not mature. You cna't pretend to be mature and do stuff like that. Not to mention that the reason why it has no 'black and white' scenarios (even though it does) is largely because most of the scenarios are illogical to begin with, and the characters in question don't have any rhyme or reason. throw in some rather poor and one dimensional writing, and it simply becomes a joke.

 

To comapre all this to trying to claim that JE is a 'stupid arcade game' because it has a flying mini game is beyond silly. Not even worth refuting even further.

 

 

 

"Superficially different, the basic setup of the games is the same. I should have replaced stories with gameplay, and overall game design. My mistake."

 

No. They are different. They have superifical similarities largely because they're developed by the same company. How can anyone claim that KOTOR and JE are the same espicially in terms of game design or game play? It's illogical.

[RPGmasterBoo]

'No use commenting' ... yet you have already passed judgment on DA (see post #91) declaring that 'it won't do it correctly'

 

It a strong gut feeling. So sue me.

[RPGmasterBoo]

"I can name these people, and I know their gaming background. If you can name yours as well and their arguments- fine"

 

A good protion of the Codex dislikes TW. That place has tons of people arguing on both sides. And, i seriously doubt you can name 'a large aportion of a very large crowd' by name unless your definition of 'large crowd' is a dozen people. L0L

 

 

"Your focus on nude cards really shows you didn't even consider the game properly. Its a lame argument - the equivalent of me saying that Jade is a stupid arcade game because it has a flying minigame."

 

Nonsense. Not the same thing. Your claim is that TW was a mature game. It isn't. A game that rewards you with nudey cards for having sex is not mature. You cna't pretend to be mature and do stuff like that. Not to mention that the reason why it has no 'black and white' scenarios (even though it does) is largely because most of the scenarios are illogical to begin with, and the characters in question don't have any rhyme or reason. throw in some rather poor and one dimensional writing, and it simply becomes a joke.

 

To comapre all this to trying to claim that JE is a 'stupid arcade game' because it has a flying mini game is beyond silly. Not even worth refuting even further.

 

 

 

"Superficially different, the basic setup of the games is the same. I should have replaced stories with gameplay, and overall game design. My mistake."

 

No. They are different. They have superifical similarities largely because they're developed by the same company. How can anyone claim that KOTOR and JE are the same espicially in terms of game design or game play? It's illogical.

 

You're just repeating your previous argument of judging a game by its one optional - almost comic relief segment. Its biased, and therefore invalid. In fact strong personal dislike is all I get from your post, justified by repetition of one sentence, unfounded and unsupported by proof of any sort. Besides your signature would raise the eyebrows of any serious RPG player, as to the value of your judgment. Therefore what's the use of arguing?

[Morgoth]

I personally have the gut feeling that DA will be a monumental comeback of Bio's might. Yes, Kotor, JE and ME had their shortcomings, but DA seems to make pretty much everything right, at least what I care about. Plus DA is the game with the longest development process in Bio's history, so they had plenty of time to flesh out the setting, and how to utilize proper roleplaying within this setting. I don't care if it will be another "hero must destroy great evil get the four items whatever rehash plot", as long as they keep the actual fine details of the story and roleplaying fresh.

[RPGmasterBoo]

I personally have the gut feeling that DA will be a monumental comeback of Bio's might. Yes, Kotor, JE and ME had their shortcomings, but DA seems to make pretty much everything right, at least what I care about. Plus DA is the game with the longest development process in Bio's history, so they had plenty of time to flesh out the setting, and how to utilize proper roleplaying within this setting. I don't care if it will be another "hero must destroy great evil get the four items whatever rehash plot", as long as they keep the actual fine details of the story and roleplaying fresh.

 

That's one way of seeing it. Another is that the project never was their full priority, which is a common speculation. BGII was after all made in 2 years. But until it comes out all we have is speculation.

[Morgoth]

I personally have the gut feeling that DA will be a monumental comeback of Bio's might. Yes, Kotor, JE and ME had their shortcomings, but DA seems to make pretty much everything right, at least what I care about. Plus DA is the game with the longest development process in Bio's history, so they had plenty of time to flesh out the setting, and how to utilize proper roleplaying within this setting. I don't care if it will be another "hero must destroy great evil get the four items whatever rehash plot", as long as they keep the actual fine details of the story and roleplaying fresh.

 

That's one way of seeing it. Another is that the project never was their full priority, which is a common speculation. BGII was after all made in 2 years. But until it comes out all we have is speculation.

BG2 was based on a finished engine. How long did it take Bio to develop BG1, however? Wasn't that one called Battlefield Infinite before? Surely 3-4 years in development. And Bio always had a dedicated team working on DA btw. Not to mention they switched their engine in the middle of development (DA engine to Eclipse), so yes, they're late, but they have reason for that.

[Purkake]

Whether or not DA will actually be a good game(we'll see when it comes out), I fear that it won't be financially successful and will end up being the final nail in the old school wrpg coffin.

Edited August 5, 2009 by Purkake

[RPGmasterBoo]

Whether or not DA will actually be a good game(we'll see when it comes out), I fear that it won't be financially successful and will end up being the final nail in the old school wrpg coffin.

 

I doubt it. But it could be financially successful and not match up to the expectations of some git in EA marketing section. That's a bigger worry. But that was Biowares mistake given EA's record of killing all creativity.

[Purkake]

Whether or not DA will actually be a good game(we'll see when it comes out), I fear that it won't be financially successful and will end up being the final nail in the old school wrpg coffin.

 

I doubt it. But it could be financially successful and not match up to the expectations of some git in EA marketing section. That's a bigger worry. But that was Biowares mistake given EA's record of killing all creativity.

 

EA bought Bioware, so I don't see how that would be Bioware's mistake. Being financially successful usually means meeting or exceeding the expectations.

[Volourn]

"You're just repeating your previous argument of judging a game by its one optional - almost comic relief segment. Its biased, and therefore invalid. In fact strong personal dislike is all I get from your post, justified by repetition of one sentence, unfounded and unsupported by proof of any sort. Besides your signature would raise the eyebrows of any serious RPG player, as to the value of your judgment. Therefore what's the use of arguing?"

 

I agree. It's hard to have a good discussion about maturity in games with someone who believes a game that has nudy pictures that add nothing to the game is one of the most mature games ever.

[Maria Caliban]

While other aspects of the game might have been mature, the Witcher's handling of human sexuality wasn't. It was quite possible to end up having sex with a woman without even intending to do so.

[RPGmasterBoo]

While other aspects of the game might have been mature, the Witcher's handling of human sexuality wasn't. It was quite possible to end up having sex with a woman without even intending to do so.

 

Which really doesn't invalidate the game in any way. Third time I've said it.

It was meant to be good intentioned fun, a bit of comic relief and that was what it was. Just like in Dogma:

 

Metatron: ...Take sex, for example. There's nothing funnier than the ridiculous faces you people make mid-coitus

Bethany: Sex is a joke in Heaven?

Metatron: The way I understand it, it's mostly a joke down here, too.

[alanschu]

I can name these people, and I know their gaming background. If you can name yours as well and their arguments- fine.

 

Better get started then. Should be quite the list.