What's your view on the recent unrests in Xinjiang?

[ouiouiwewe]

With all this strife going on in the world on a regular basis, the riots that are taking place in Xinjiang is not something I'd normally consider interesting. However, since I generally read 8/10 yahoo top stories per 12 hours, I have read about 6-7 articles about it in total, over the past few days. For pretty much all of them, the story follows the same idea:

- Report of unrest

- Casulties

- Countries barking about human rights

- Locals telling their stories

 

However, one thing that catches my eye in this topic is that while there are numerous reports (based on both Chinese and Western sources) on the brutality of the Uigur attacks, such as burning down stores, slaughtering other ethnic people, and causing fear, (as well as the Han ethnic group's retaliation) while a lot of articles expressed/cited condemnations on how the Chinese government is cracking down on this ethnic group and committing genocide. I tried googling for sources that support this claim, but there doesn't seem to be any other than some exiled Uigur leader's (in the U.S.) claim that the casulties on the Uigur side was exaggerated.

 

While I generally place a great deal of doubt on information released by the PRC's media (namely Xinhua), one thing I do find interesting is that very few (if any) Western journalists dwelled on the ethnic cleansing committed by the Uigur side. In fact, some articles even claimed that the Uigurs and Tibetans (from 2008) were simply protesting peacefully despite evidence on the contrary. Then some others accused China of cultural genocide when the melting pot ideology is the foundation of the United States's culture.

 

Anyway, this is a big question mark I have for this news topic. Either I have missed something or there is a lack of objectivity in the Western media when it comes to China. What's your opinion on this?

 

P.S. This article contains an interesting citation of some director of Democracy and Human Rights at the Foreign Policy Institute . Notice the term "peaceful protests":

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/19420/

[Whipporwill]

Either I have missed something or there is a lack of objectivity in the Western media when it comes to China. What's your opinion on this?

 

What you've missed is that reporters have to report something, and if they don't have access to facts, they'll report rumors, innuendo, fervid imaginings, and anything else they can come up with.

[Humodour]

With all this strife going on in the world on a regular basis, the riots that are taking place in Xinjiang is not something I'd normally consider interesting. However, since I generally read 8/10 yahoo top stories per 12 hours, I have read about 6-7 articles about it in total, over the past few days. For pretty much all of them, the story follows the same idea:

- Report of unrest

- Casulties

- Countries barking about human rights

- Locals telling their stories

 

However, one thing that catches my eye in this topic is that while there are numerous reports (based on both Chinese and Western sources) on the brutality of the Uigur attacks, such as burning down stores, slaughtering other ethnic people, and causing fear, (as well as the Han ethnic group's retaliation) while a lot of articles expressed/cited condemnations on how the Chinese government is cracking down on this ethnic group and committing genocide. I tried googling for sources that support this claim, but there doesn't seem to be any other than some exiled Uigur leader's (in the U.S.) claim that the casulties on the Uigur side was exaggerated.

 

While I generally place a great deal of doubt on information released by the PRC's media (namely Xinhua), one thing I do find interesting is that very few (if any) Western journalists dwelled on the ethnic cleansing committed by the Uigur side. In fact, some articles even claimed that the Uigurs and Tibetans (from 2008) were simply protesting peacefully despite evidence on the contrary. Then some others accused China of cultural genocide when the melting pot ideology is the foundation of the United States's culture.

 

Anyway, this is a big question mark I have for this news topic. Either I have missed something or there is a lack of objectivity in the Western media when it comes to China. What's your opinion on this?

 

P.S. This article contains an interesting citation of some director of Democracy and Human Rights at the Foreign Policy Institute . Notice the term "peaceful protests":

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/19420/

 

Oh, is Turkey a Western country now?

 

Turkey attacks China 'genocide'

[Monte Carlo]

This November we will be celebrating 20th anniversary of the toppling of the Berlin Wall (yes, I have a photo of a much slimmer early twenty-something Monte clambering through a large hole under the watchful eye of a stoic East German border policeman). OK, Kremlinologists might argue about the precise time the whole Communist experiment in Eastern Europe and beyond finally crumbled, but for most of us this is the bit we remember. It is of totemic significance.

 

The events in China are ripples from the collapse of the Soviet Empire. As is Al Q'aeda. So is Iran.

 

China is thrilling and terrifying in equal measure.

 

Cheers

MC

[Kaftan Barlast]

The only sure thing in this regarding the media coverage is that you cannot under any circumstance trust anything the official chinese news bureau says.

[Humodour]

The only sure thing in this regarding the media coverage is that you cannot under any circumstance trust anything the official chinese news bureau says.

 

Amen.

[Meshugger]

The only sure thing in this regarding the media coverage is that you cannot under any circumstance trust anything the official chinese news bureau says.

 

 

Aaaand T-t-t-t-t-t-that's all, folks!

 

When we something from a more credible source, then we might have something.

[ouiouiwewe]

The only sure thing in this regarding the media coverage is that you cannot under any circumstance trust anything the official chinese news bureau says.

Indeed, I did stress that issue in my OP too. However, there are indeed independent news coverage by the Western media this time around. But the puzzling thing I find is that the media's interpretation of the issue is generally not consistent with the evidence they mined.

 

For example, why aren't the Uigurs not given any blame outside of the Chinese media? Why weren't any sympathy given to the Han Chinese whose families were slaughtered by Uigur mobs and looters (as reported by NYT)?

[Whipporwill]

The only sure thing in this regarding the media coverage is that you cannot under any circumstance trust anything the official chinese news bureau says.

Indeed, I did stress that issue in my OP too. However, there are indeed independent news coverage by the Western media this time around. But the puzzling thing I find is that the media's interpretation of the issue is generally not consistent with the evidence they mined.

 

For example, why aren't the Uigurs not given any blame outside of the Chinese media? Why weren't any sympathy given to the Han Chinese whose families were slaughtered by Uigur mobs and looters (as reported by NYT)?

 

Check This out: Angry Chinese Mob Turns on ABC Reporters and Crew

 

"We were driving to the Uighur area and encountered an angry mob. Thirty Han Chinese men were beating a Uighur man, kicking him and punching him and hitting him with sticks. He was not fighting back but just trying to get away. Hundreds of Han Chinese were cheering the men on. Eventually, the police dragged the Uighur away and put him in a vehicle for his protection. Then, the mob turned on us. They blocked our cameras, not wanting the images of Han Chinese beating a Uighur to get out. I was pushed. Then the group surrounded us and started yelling. They pushed us back up a highway ramp where we were shooting. They yelled that western journalists were biased against the Han Chinese and that we should delete our footage. One man tried to grab our camera and then pulled out a baton and held it over his head as if he were going to hit us. We turned around and ran. The oddest part of the whole experience was that there were swarms of police and troops around and none of them were really trying to break up the fight."

 

Gosh, I wonder why the Han are getting bad press?

[ouiouiwewe]

The interesting thing is there are other similar Western report, some of which featuring similar angry mobs that are consisted of the Uigur ethnic instead of the Han ethnic. So again, what allowed the Uigur's actions be overlooked whereas the Han's actions be scrutinized when both groups had been reported to committing hate crimes against each other?

 

Would the scenario be evaluated differently if it was a riot in Chechnya between the Russians and Chechens?

[Whipporwill]

The interesting thing is there are other similar Western report, some of which featuring similar angry mobs that are consisted of the Uigur ethnic instead of the Han ethnic. So again, what allowed the Uigur's actions be overlooked whereas the Han's actions be scrutinized when both groups had been reported to committing hate crimes against each other?

 

Would the scenario be evaluated differently if it was a riot in Chechnya between the Russians and Chechens?

 

The mob went after the journalists. I have not seen reports of Uighur mobs doing this.

 

Edit: To make things perfectly clear, journalists do not treat the sides equally because the sides do not treat them equally. One side sucks up to them and the other side threatens and berates them. Journalists are human, they like being sucked up to and don't like being threatened and berated. If the Han want better treatment from journalists, they must treat journalists better. That's all there is to it.

Edited July 13, 2009 by Whipporwill

[ouiouiwewe]

Your point would have been reasonable except:

- It occurred only a few days ago and stories about Xinjiang's riots started weeks ago

- It occurred to ABC but did not appear to have occurred to other major Western news outlet (correct me if I am wrong)

 

At the same time, not all journalists are out in the field. Many of them sit in their home offices writing articles based on existing data. So, the concept of disposition and 'sucking-up' shouldn't have mattered. Even with this aside, if a news outlet is to selectively ignore important elements of a conflict because some members of one side attacked their reporters while members of the other acted all sad and pitiful to them, do you think there are reasons to question the objectivity of their analyses?

 

By the way, I do consider the attack on reporters by the Han mob to be quite disgraceful, if it was unprovoked.

Edited July 13, 2009 by ouiouiwewe

[Wrath of Dagon]

Anyway, this is a big question mark I have for this news topic. Either I have missed something or there is a lack of objectivity in the Western media when it comes to China. What's your opinion on this?

Isn't that China's fault for not allowing free access to the press? Isn't if fair to be biased against someone who tries to conceal information? Also trying to take sides in ethnic riots doesn't make much sense to me, both sides are bound to do some horrific things. It's pretty clear though that the Uighurs are an oppressed minority in China, and China tries to settle ethnic Chinese in their areas to gain greater control. This is also how it worked with ethnic Russians in the Soviet Union. Edited July 14, 2009 by Wrath of Dagon

[ouiouiwewe]

That's a good point. However, given the silence of the Uighur in regards to the genocidal acts their mobs committed, aren't they also concealing information? On the other hand, the Chinese government demonstrated record openness to foreign media (at least compared to the past) and this is why the Western media has any substantial news on the table.

 

I wouldn't necessarily say the Uighur as a whole are an oppressed minority, given the extensive priviliges they enjoy over the ethnic Han especially in terms of law and education. A major reason for this uprising to occur is a result of disparity between the socio-economic status of members of the two ethnics. With this said, there's also much parallel between this particular riot and that of the Paris back in 2006.

 

On the other hand, although the notion of religious freedom seems to play a significant role, it is not something that is specific to the ethnic minorities in China. Let us recall the brutality shown towards the Fah Lung Gung religious groups - The vast majority of them are ethnic Han and many of them were butchered like pigs after their phony leader angered the the communist leaders.

 

Anyhow, I find it difficult to sympathsize with the Uighurs if they are willing to condemn others but unwilling to take responsibility.

[Whipporwill]

I never consider journalists to be objective about anything.

[Walsingham]

I agree that it's hard to be certain about what happened, due to lack of credible reporting. However, I do think one an make some sensible background observations on what one would expect to find.

 

1. As a rule human beings are quite racist and prone to mob violence

2. These tendencies can be reduced if the individuals exist in a culture of non-violence. I suggest that a dictatorship is not such a culture.

3. People on the bottom rungs of any society often suffer offences and injustices which make them predisposed to believe offences against them have taken place. Making 'just causes' for violence more common.

 

It strikes me that some pretty unpleasant things are likely to have occurred, and occurred on both sides. Simply because I see little reason why they shouldn't have done.

 

I was interested to see the behaviour described as ethnic cleansing. Is it fair to say the same is true of paramilitary violence in Northern Ireland?

[ouiouiwewe]

I guess it is only considered ethnic cleansing when the operation was successful and against an ethnic minority.