A.I.

[fastpunk]

I think plenty of people have noticed the anemic A.I. , which was clearly evidenced in every AP dev walkthrough we've seen so far.

 

Mike can take cover and all, but I've yet to see A.I. controlled characters do that. Not to mention that sometimes they just seem to be standing there in the open, waiting to be put out of their misery. OK, they don't take cover, but at least make them move a bit. They also seem to have some pathfinding problems, as I remember seeing an enemy get stuck on the stairs in the latest dev walkthrough. And let's not forget the icing on the cake: the scene were Mike uses some sound generating device to 'fool' the A.I. into getting run over by the train. No offense, but that's just pants on head retarded. A.I. behavior looks very inconsistent overall, to put it gently.

 

I'm not sure how time-costly or difficult it is to set up proper A.I. in a game, but I must ask: are you guys (the devs I mean) working on actually improving it? Are you teaching the A.I. to have at least some basic self-preservation instincts? Will it ever learn to use cover?

 

I hope Obsidian can get things working properly in this department till October. It would be a shame, since AP has the right ingredients (except mini games I guess) to be a captivating experience. Cheers!

Edited June 30, 2009 by fastpunk

[Zoma]

+1

[Guest PoziomyPion]

+1

 

I agree completely, decent AI is needed, AP is not NWN2 afterall.

 

I remember in one of the E3 videos dev said that the enemies will get tougher further in the game. I believe it doesn't meant their AI gets better, they just get more HP and deal more damage and their vision range gets broader and further.

 

So yeah, AI as for now is way below decent category.

[Oner]

I remember in one of the E3 videos dev said that the enemies will get tougher further in the game. I believe it doesn't meant their AI gets better, they just get more HP and deal more damage and their vision range gets broader and further.

Iirc they were obvious about the AI getting tougher, not (just) the enemies themselves.

[Guest PoziomyPion]

Oh, I take back what I said then, but why show us weaker AI? It makes people think it's the final one.

[Oner]

I guess that train yard level is a very early one.

[Sannom]

Oh, I take back what I said then, but why show us weaker AI? It makes people think it's the final one.

 

They wanted to show Sie perhaps? The enemies in that level are just low-level mafia thugs, I suppose that the highly trained and well-equipped soldiers and commandos of the later levels shall be smarter.

[fastpunk]

Pathfinding problems and enemies that sit still in the open or get run over by a train cause they heard a sound has nothing to do with them being low level or simple thugs. Just sayin' ...

[Oner]

Pathfinding problems and enemies that sit still in the open or get run over by a train cause they heard a sound has nothing to do with them being low level or simple thugs. Just sayin' ...

Simple low level thugs = punks who think they're invulnerable 'cause they pack a mac 9 (standing still in the open), react slower then an experienced person (hesitation in action). Just sayin'.

 

By the way, as retarded as getting run over by train sounds, a lack of environment awareness, or too much focus on one thing can easily result in just that, as evidenced by a car crash I had the "pleasure" to star in (no, I didn't cause it, I was a passenger).

[fastpunk]

Simple low level thugs = punks who think they're invulnerable 'cause they pack a mac 9 (standing still in the open), react slower then an experienced person (hesitation in action). Just sayin'.

 

Alright, the hesitation part might be excused by a lack of experience. But standing in the open while someone is trying to kill you, bullets flying your way and all... that one's harder to explain by inexperience.

 

By the way, as retarded as getting run over by train sounds, a lack of environment awareness, or too much focus on one thing can easily result in just that, as evidenced by a car crash I had the "pleasure" to star in (no, I didn't cause it, I was a passenger).

 

Look here:

 

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09-alpha-protocol/50419

 

Skip forward to about 1:20 for the relevant scene.

 

They get distracted by a sound while in patrol mode, and suddenly they focus so much on finding the source that they completely blank out everything around them? Sorry, maybe it's just me but that's not normal. They're not under assault, they're not in mortal danger, so there's little in terms of pressure to distract them so heavily. Yet they don't realize they're on the train track, and don't hear the sound that signals that a train is coming. It's hard to excuse this in any way.

Edited June 30, 2009 by fastpunk

[Oner]

By the way, as retarded as getting run over by train sounds, a lack of environment awareness, or too much focus on one thing can easily result in just that, as evidenced by a car crash I had the "pleasure" to star in (no, I didn't cause it, I was a passenger).

 

Look here:

 

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09-alpha-protocol/50419

 

Skip forward to about 1:20 for the relevant scene.

 

They get distracted by a sound while in patrol mode, and suddenly they focus so much on finding the source that they completely blank out everything around them? Sorry, maybe it's just me but that's not normal. They're not under assault, they're not in mortal danger, so there's little in terms of pressure to distract them so heavily. Yet they don't realize they're on the train track, and don't hear the sound that signals that a train is coming. It's hard to excuse this in any way.

I didn't really mean it to excuse that part, I just thought I'd point it out, that's why the sentence started with 'by the way'.

[fastpunk]

I didn't really mean it to excuse that part, I just thought I'd point it out, that's why the sentence started with 'by the way'.

 

Ah, ok then.

[Pop]

I think plenty of people have noticed the anemic A.I. , which was clearly evidenced in every AP dev walkthrough we've seen so far.

 

Mike can take cover and all, but I've yet to see A.I. controlled characters do that. Not to mention that sometimes they just seem to be standing there in the open, waiting to be put out of their misery. OK, they don't take cover, but at least make them move a bit. They also seem to have some pathfinding problems, as I remember seeing an enemy get stuck on the stairs in the latest dev walkthrough. And let's not forget the icing on the cake: the scene were Mike uses some sound generating device to 'fool' the A.I. into getting run over by the train. No offense, but that's just pants on head retarded. A.I. behavior looks very inconsistent overall, to put it gently.

 

I'm not sure how time-costly or difficult it is to set up proper A.I. in a game, but I must ask: are you guys (the devs I mean) working on actually improving it? Are you teaching the A.I. to have at least some basic self-preservation instincts? Will it ever learn to use cover?

 

I hope Obsidian can get things working properly in this department till October. It would be a shame, since AP has the right ingredients (except mini games I guess) to be a captivating experience. Cheers!

The first video footage of AP released had enemies using cover.

[Oblarg]

I'd like to see alerted enemies actively searching for Mike, and I'd like to see enemies in combat both using cover and attempting to flank mike so as to get a shot at him while he's in cover.

 

Also, better reaction time, and less idiotic standing around.

[Slowtrain]

Deus Ex had pretty weak AI, but the game was still great.

 

SO not worried.

[Oner]

Deus Ex had pretty weak AI, but the game was still great.

 

SO not worried.

I liked how the inexperienced NSF troopers ran toward you, but the better MJ12 people ran in circles to make shooting them harder (not that it did, but they tried).

[fastpunk]

The first video footage of AP released had enemies using cover.

 

Yes, it had a few dudes ducking behind crates. Mike can put his back to a crate, pop-out only a small portion of his body and take shots at enemies, he can blindfire or blindthrow grenades, quickly switch between cover spots, mantle, or dodge out of a grenade's way. Wouldn't you say it's only fair for enemies to be able to performs these moves as well?

 

Because I don't see why should Mike be able to do all these things if enemies can't. It gives him an unfair advantage from the get go. I'm not saying that your average thug should have the accuracy of a professional sniper, or perform every move with ninja agility, but it doesn't take supah sicrit spy training to jump out of the way of an incoming grenade, or put your back to a crate, or blindfire and blindthrow.

Edited July 1, 2009 by fastpunk