Update me on the state of PC's

[samm]

What do I look for in a "solid" motherboard that would (hopefully) let me do this? A C2D one that says it's i7 cpu compatible or some kind of power-rating or connections or ...? Yes, I'm a dufus.

C2D/Q and i7 are inherently incompatible, they have a different pin layout, thus requiring different sockets, and the i7 has a memory controller included, which is on the mainboard for the C2D/Q.

So solid means: Is running stable under any cicrumstances, can handle CPUs with high power consumption, has a long warranty, good driver / BIOS support from its manufacturer, has a good layout (i.e. memory slots and CPU socket are far enough from each other that massive CPU coolers don't deny access to the memory slots, PCI-e x16 for the graphics card is placed in a way that the graphics card won't block access to memory, SATA connectory, CMOS switch / jumper, or the mainboard's battery etc.), doesn't provide performance bottlenecks, doesn't waste power etc., depending on your preferences.

Check the following things to find out whether your motherboard of choice is a good choice:

Reviews, for performance, also layout etc.

Official (mobo-manufacturer's) website for compatibility with high power using parts (currently the i7 965 XE processors), BIOS updates, date of provided drivers

Vendor's website for customers' ratings, details about the warranty etc.

 

The gamble is always frustrating, yup....w/the i7's out the C2D will get cheaper and cheaper if you wait 3-6 months. But in 6 months, there's another reason to wait, and so on...bah.

Yeah, I've got the same problem too, currently... Of course, it's never possible to prepare optimally, for example, if you'd follow the steps detailed above for every part in your PC, you'll have a year to decide on the parts, and until then, new parts are available etc. Edited April 12, 2009 by samm

[I want teh kotor 3]

Edits later: give me a ballpark figure for the difference in price between ram and motherboards, for instance?

Let me rephrase that, for you specific-minded/"just google" people...

 

Do you believe the low end i7 would have more core-system gaming longevity than the core2duo? I see some DD3 ram for like 100 for 6 gigs (probably a cheap brand, I know) and i7 motherboards for a few hundred...doesn't seem like a major price difference to me for a non-uber i7 rig?

 

The i7's definitely much faster. The price is much higher too. I'm running the EVGA board, which is ~$300, but you can find one for ~$200 if you bargain hunt. Thats considerably more that a LGA 775 board. The procs themselves are more money, though generally you can find C2D/Q for similar prices but much less performance. the 920 is very good, and OC's beautifully, so it'll be good for a very long time. Gaming-wise, it has a decent boost over the C2s, and that gap will get larger once more games are optimized for quad-core. $1600 will get you a great i7 rig (no monitor, case or PSU- I recycled).

[samm]

Sorry if I quote you that way, I agree with what you said, exept:

The procs themselves are more money, though generally you can find C2D/Q for similar prices but much less performance.

No.

Gaming-wise, it has a decent boost over the C2s

No.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

I agree with Samm, so far the i7 cores have not, in the case of gaming, shown themselves to preform better than the Core 2 Duos.

[Bokishi]

Yup I'm still running an e8400 here and I'm still totally satisfied with its gaming performance. Would probably be different if I did video encoding however. I think I'll just wait until the i8/westmere 6-core

[I want teh kotor 3]

Gaming-wise, it has a decent boost over the C2s

No.

 

Yeah, you're probably right, but, as I said, when multi-core optimization becomes more prevalent, that will change. Any way you look at it, the i7 is going to be a long-term investment, which ties into the original question of longevity.

[LadyCrimson]

C2D/Q and i7 are inherently incompatible, they have a different pin layout, thus requiring different sockets, and the i7 has a memory controller included, which is on the mainboard for the C2D/Q.

Ah, so you must have meant if I built an i7, I could upgrade it w/newer i7 cores later, so it'd be better for longevity that way than the c2d. Makes sense, and sorry for misunderstanding. And thanks for the more in-depth concepts of "solid". That also helps.

 

I usually leave this 'core system' stuff to hubby but he just looks at where the tech trends are and how it relates to price, builds modestly adequate, basic systems, and tosses cheap cards inside his, while I toss more expensive cards in mine. I'd like more than that this time around. heh

I think I'll just wait until the i8/westmere 6-core

I've let new techs make me wait long enough. Just gotta do it, as they say. I figure if I build something good soon, it'll last me at least as long as this one has, which is 4+ years. Har. Still probably won't be until mid-late summer tho ... taxes and all, bleh.

Edited April 13, 2009 by LadyCrimson

[Humodour]

My Mac Mini arrived. I installed apt-get, OpenOffice 3, Firefox, VLC and WINE and it's purring like a kitten. Will test out some games on WINE soon, but I plan to install an XP dual-boot for my old games.

 

I'm loving the fact that's it about 4 times more powerful than my previous PC.

Old PC:

1.4 Ghz Intel Centrino

512 MiB DDR1 SDRAM

Geforce 5200 32MiB

 

New PC:

2 Ghz Intel Dual Core (C2D)

4 GiB DDR3 SDRAM

Geforce 9400 256 MiB

 

And holy **** is it small. It's smaller than my 5 year-old DVD burner in all dimensions.

 

Oh, the console on OS X Leopard is really interesting. It automatically switches between sh, bash, Tcl, etc, depending on the command you enter.

Edited April 30, 2009 by Krezack

[samm]

I don't think a 2GHz C2D is four times faster than a 1.4GHz Pentium M And while mac minis are nice little fellows, I'm not sure Mac OS is the cleverest thing invented to date:

Oh, the console on OS X Leopard is really interesting. It automatically switches between sh, bash, Tcl, etc, depending on the command you enter.

Great, so even the console users of the future won't have a clue what they're actually doing...

[Humodour]

I don't think a 2GHz C2D is four times faster than a 1.4GHz Pentium M

 

Processors are about 5 years newer -> better optimisations and technology, 2 cores instead of one, more ram (less use of paging), faster BUS, fasting grahpics card... oh I'd certainly say 4 times faster is a reasonable statement. You of all people know that CPU speed isn't the only bottleneck.

 

And while mac minis are nice little fellows, I'm not sure Mac OS is the cleverest thing invented to date

 

Did I say it was? It's certainly a clever OS and while Ubuntu rivals it in the innovation department, there are still a lot of clever and innovative things about it I really like.

 

Oh, the console on OS X Leopard is really interesting. It automatically switches between sh, bash, Tcl, etc, depending on the command you enter.

Great, so even the console users of the future won't have a clue what they're actually doing...

 

That's so silly. It's like saying Python coders don't know what they're doing because it's duck-typed.

 

Anyway, Ubuntu does the same thing, AFAIK.

[samm]

Haha, you may be right conerning the speed-increase when considering harddisk accesses because of swapping and graphics performance (even if the mini isn't teh grafix b0mb).

Concerning my remark about Mac OS: This wasn't intended to suppose you said it was the ultimate OS, it just means I think there are a lot of deficiencies in its concept and execution.

 

I think the duck-typing illustrates my point however, even if it was poorly phrased before: If you don't know what you're doing because you don't have to, it's hard to find out why something fails. The lack of necessity to declare what object-type you're expecting for a method y (which you can simulate that in other languages than Python as well, by just requiring an Object instead of a more specific class)* in the case of duck-typing can leave you in the dark why the method x of the argument couldn't be called inside y. Equivalent, if you don't know that this-and-that thing causes problems with sh but not bash, it's really hard to debug a shell programming problem that could arise if the OS thinks you're using sh. In contrast, if you know you use sh, it's obvious what you can and cannot do, and it's easier to google for problems.

 

About Ubuntu: As far as I know, the shells are still specific. Had to reset the shell for my DB2 user to bash, because it was only using sh.

 

 

*: had to scrap that, it's not true. You cannot use specialized methods of an Object-class object without causing an error message already before runtime unless you cast it.

Edited May 1, 2009 by samm

[Humodour]

The lack of necessity to declare what object-type you're expecting for a method y [...] in the case of duck-typing can leave you in the dark why the method x of the argument couldn't be called inside y.

 

But every time I've had a type error in Python it specifically tells me why the error occurred: e.g. argument is of type int but I sent a string. Python is still strongly typed because Python actively tracks types, even if we aren't required to.

 

Equivalent, if you don't know that this-and-that thing causes problems with sh but not bash, it's really hard to debug a shell programming problem that could arise if the OS thinks you're using sh. In contrast, if you know you use sh, it's obvious what you can and cannot do, and it's easier to google for problems.

 

Fair enough. I don't know much at all about shell programming. I have a feeling I'm actually mischaracterising OS X's shell switching method by way of ignorance.

[samm]

I'm not a shell-master either... But I recently had that problem with running a bash-script with said sh-user According to this, Panther and newer use bash as standard as well. Couldn't find anything on automatic shell switching after (a short time) looking for it on google.

Edited May 2, 2009 by samm

[Bokishi]

Gaming-wise, it has a decent boost over the C2s

No.

 

Yeah, you're probably right, but, as I said, when multi-core optimization becomes more prevalent, that will change. Any way you look at it, the i7 is going to be a long-term investment, which ties into the original question of longevity.

 

theres never a longevity lol

[Humodour]

i7's don't seem to be a long-term investment at all.

[I want teh kotor 3]

i7's don't seem to be a long-term investment at all.

 

And Craps Macs are?

[Humodour]

i7's don't seem to be a long-term investment at all.

 

And Craps Macs are?

 

Why did you write 'Craps' then cross it out?

[mkreku]

The problem with Macs is that they're usually on the verge of being outdated at the time of sale. Then comes the problem with non-interchangeable parts and you're stuck with what you got. 'Fortunately', Macs are not really used for gaming and this is where ageing technology usually shows its deficiencies.

[Humodour]

The problem with Macs is that they're usually on the verge of being outdated at the time of sale. Then comes the problem with non-interchangeable parts and you're stuck with what you got. 'Fortunately', Macs are not really used for gaming and this is where ageing technology usually shows its deficiencies.

 

That's true for Mac laptops and the Mini, which are not usually used for gaming (I, for example, only intend to play pre-2009 games + Diablo 3 and Starcraft 3, which will run on old hardware). The higher end Macs tend to be top of the line (in part due to their popularity for use in things like the film industry, although they've largely been superseded by Linux there now).

 

My point about the i7 was that it seems to be following the same trajectory as the Pentium D or Itanium.

[Bokishi]

My point about the i7 was that it seems to be following the same trajectory as the Pentium D or Itanium.

 

Pretty much, there's no real legit performance gain in terms of gaming over a core 2. And gamings all I'd really care about when it comes to upgrading

[I want teh kotor 3]

i7's don't seem to be a long-term investment at all.

 

And Craps Macs are?

 

Why did you write 'Craps' then cross it out?

 

Most people get confused when I refer to them as Craps.