The Gamasutra 20: Top Game Writers

[Morgoth]

ANd the writing was really the best part of Bioshock anyway. SO I guess it doesn't really disqualify him from this thread.

 

It was the rest of the game that was so tedious.

 

 

Did Levine actually write Bioshock himself? Or did he just control the overall design of the game?

Bioshock has a long history. He started working on it after SS2 I think, and it constantly evolved. It was first revealed in 2004, as a complete different game "A'la The Fly meets Nazi underground complex" or something like that. I thought it really really sounded very ambitious. So it further developed and changed, up until the last minute where it was "crippled". Too bad, I wish we could get a game with the old concept - it sounded more like a SciFi-horror game. Yes, horror. That's what I'm missing in Bioshock the most. It just isn't scary.

 

Edit: Like that.

 

Edited February 20, 2009 by Morgoth

[Slowtrain]

Well, maybe Bioshock's success has bought him the freedom to do something more interesting now.

[Morgoth]

Well, maybe Bioshock's success has bought him the freedom to do something more interesting now.

I think with Bioshock Ken already had the freedom to do something interesting - it's just the execution that was "changed".

 

But of course I remain optimistic for both Bioshock 2 and Ken's NextBigThing - they're all an incredibly talented bunch, and I always was (am) a huge fanboy of their work.

[Volourn]

"I'd imagine that Gaider couldn't be on since he hasn't released a large work since... BG:ToB or something? "

 

KOTOR, NWN, SOU, and HOTU all had major contributions from Gaider.

[Niten_Ryu]

Ken Levine went Blizzard's route with Bioshock. Game elements come first and story adjusts around it. It worked great for him and the 2kgames.

 

I think he's working with Bioshock 2 and it'll be just as casual game as original Bioshock. He has the ability to make game as hardcore as Thief or System Shock 2 but he knows that game like that wouldn't be profitable in the age of 20-40 million AAA game budgets. From game mechanics point of view everything was calculated and tested again and again in Bioshock. After game mechanics worked the way they wanted, Ken made story work the best he could. I think he did more then ok job with it.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

So apparently Emil Pagliarulo's writing on Oblivion and Fallout 3 is considered impressive now? Seriously?

 

 

ANybody who worked as a writer on either Oblivion and/or FO3 should be immediately disqualified from inclusion.

 

 

I agree.

[Hurlshort]

I guess the list is ok for a current writer list.

 

An All-time would be a joke without all the zany Sierra adventure writers, Al Lowe, Jane Jensen, Roberta Williams, Scott Murphy, and most of all Lori Cole.

[Slowtrain]

I think he's working with Bioshock 2 and it'll be just as casual game as original Bioshock. He has the ability to make game as hardcore as Thief or System Shock 2 but he knows that game like that wouldn't be profitable in the age of 20-40 million AAA game budgets.

 

 

Yes, I do agree. Sadly. Games are just too expensive these days to make them anything other than as accessible as possible.

 

I'll still complain about it though.

[Mamoulian War]

I'll still complain about it though.

 

Same with me, i just hope there will be still some indies who can make a game which is at least at half difficulty that some of the games of my youth were... nowadays i get bored by almost every game i play because they made it so unchallenging

[Morgoth]

I'll still complain about it though.

 

Same with me, i just hope there will be still some indies who can make a game which is at least at half difficulty that some of the games of my youth were... nowadays i get bored by almost every game i play because they made it so unchallenging

It also has something to do with the actual player skill. Back in 1999, when I played Aliens vs Predator or System Shock 2, I really thought those games were immensely hard. Today I just breeze through these same games like a wind with zero effort.

Edited February 21, 2009 by Morgoth

[Mamoulian War]

Yes when you play a lot of FPS, it is skill based aswell, but i did not play any FPS for 5 years, installed AvP 2, Unreal 2, Quake 4 and Doom 3 all put on hardest difficulty. AvP 2 - i got almost instantly raped... all others - I breezed through all of them in few days... I did not bother with HL2, Gears of War, Crysis and Far Cry after that experience...

Edited February 21, 2009 by Mamoulian War

[Volourn]

" Sadly. Games are just too expensive these days to make them anything other than as accessible as possible."

 

Game prices really haven't gone up espicially if you take inflation into account.

[Pidesco]

She's talking about game developing costs, not store prices.

[Volourn]

Oops. My bad. Never mind.

[Morgoth]

Yes when you play a lot of FPS, it is skill based aswell, but i did not play any FPS for 5 years, installed AvP 2, Unreal 2, Quake 4 and Doom 3 all put on hardest difficulty. AvP 2 - i got almost instantly raped... all others - I breezed through all of them in few days... I did not bother with HL2, Gears of War, Crysis and Far Cry after that experience...

Ahhh yes, the AvP2 raping... It was a time when Monolith was still hardcore enough to make challenging shooters. Now they're doing "focus testing" with nubs, which results into nub games like FEAR2.

[Slowtrain]

Stalker: Clear Sky seemed reasonably difficult.

 

When I first started it, I was getting totally wasted, because I was coming off Far Cry 2, which was pretty easy and my FPS skills were down. Once I played STALKER for a while I got back up to speed.

 

But it is still challenging. ANd I only played it on medium difficulty. ANything higher would probably be plenty hard.

[Morgoth]

Is Clear Sky better than the original STALKER? I really liked Stalker for the first 10-15 hours, but then I got lost for some reason and I was too stupid to gather anything from the map. I just got stuck. Is Clear Sky in that respective a bit "Sky clearer"?

Edited February 21, 2009 by Morgoth

[Maria Caliban]

She's talking about game developing costs, not store prices.

 

Yeah, that's what she's talking about. She could have been a bit more clear, but I got her meaning. I think she has a good point about games needing to be more accessable, but I haven't seen her present a compelling arguement on how 'more accessable' nessarily hurts innovation or quality.

 

Also: she, her, girl, woman, bwebs.

[Slowtrain]

Is Clear Sky better than the original STALKER? I really liked Stalker for the first 10-15 hours, but then I got lost for some reason and I was too stupid to gather anything from the map. I just got stuck. Is Clear Sky in that respective a bit "Sky clearer"?

 

 

Hard to say. Its very similar yet very different. I guess it would depend what you liked about the first one and why you lost interest.

 

The core gameplay of traveling through the zone, collecting artifacts, and shooting things is still the same. The "story" is equally non-existent in both games

 

 

There is a big emphasis on the faction wars in CLear Sky. (Clear Sky is one of the factions in the game as well) All the major factions are constantly fighting each other and you can choose to join or not. It gives the game a different feel from the first game.

 

The artifact and trade and and weapon and armor systems have both been greatly improved. The AI throws grenades all over the place now.

 

I don't think the levels are as interesting or as well-utilized as in the first game.

 

I prefer the first one to the second, overall. I find it unlikely that if you didn't like the first, that then you would like the second. But maybe.

[Slowtrain]

She's talking about game developing costs, not store prices.

 

Yeah, that's what she's talking about. She could have been a bit more clear, but I got her meaning. I think she has a good point about games needing to be more accessable, but I haven't seen her present a compelling arguement on how 'more accessable' nessarily hurts innovation or quality.

 

 

 

I wouldn't say innovation and quality. I would say complexity.

 

And I don't think it has to, by definition, but that appears to be the current trend in development.

 

A lot of games today are pretty high quality; god knows, they cost enough. WHere else does all the money go?

[Morgoth]

There's also some speculation, mis-management, and overly-paid bonuses that fatten up the budget. Not to mention a lot unnecessary PR/marketing actions and viral marketing. (FEAR2 van with FEAR2 cats. I mean WTF?)

[Mamoulian War]

Stalker: Clear Sky seemed reasonably difficult.

 

When I first started it, I was getting totally wasted, because I was coming off Far Cry 2, which was pretty easy and my FPS skills were down. Once I played STALKER for a while I got back up to speed.

 

But it is still challenging. ANd I only played it on medium difficulty. ANything higher would probably be plenty hard.

 

Glad to hear that, maybe i give it a shot

[Mamoulian War]

A lot of games today are pretty high quality; god knows, they cost enough. WHere else does all the money go?

 

Into the marketing department instead of development

[Whipporwill]

Tribes Vengeance and FFvs3rd Reich bombed hard.

 

FFv3R was a game set in a niche genre that took the position that the entire genre was stupid. Fans of the genre weren't going to like being told that their favorite genre was stupid, while non-fans weren't likely to buy the game in the first place. The end result was a game with no audience.

[Pidesco]

Stalker: Clear Sky seemed reasonably difficult.

 

When I first started it, I was getting totally wasted, because I was coming off Far Cry 2, which was pretty easy and my FPS skills were down. Once I played STALKER for a while I got back up to speed.

 

But it is still challenging. ANd I only played it on medium difficulty. ANything higher would probably be plenty hard.

 

Glad to hear that, maybe i give it a shot

 

I found Shadow of Chernobyl to be pretty punishing as well.