Why do game devs and filmakers always feel the need to butcher original material?

[Blarghagh]

I would be played by Rob Schneider. I'd be a cameo that just serves to claim the other characters are wrong.

[Calax]

I can't wait to see the Hollywood version of these forums. I'll be evil, of course.

this would be a scary thing indeed.

[Dark_Raven]

"real Hercules"

 

HAHAHAHA!

Just imagine Kevin Sorbo doing the voice work....omg

 

I think my under-roo's would spontaneously combust.

But Kevin is hot, he is Hercules.

[Kaftan Barlast]

Alright, which one of you moddy types saw fit to delete my entire post? Come on, fess up.

 

 

edit: and it was only the second part that was even remotely offensive... to the ancient egyptians, that is.

Edited January 3, 2009 by Kaftan Barlast

[Walsingham]

I've got to stick up for Kaft on this. Lazy copying is like poor quality knock offs of any variety. They don't do the purchaser and favours, and damage the original product. I can't imagine taking a bad adaptation of anything I liked very well.

 

*thinks*

 

I suppose that also, just like a fake rolex it undermines the cachet of 'possessing' an original. i.e. when everyone THINKS they know about the mythos x then really knowing about it becomes almost tacky.

[Hell Kitty]

They don't do the purchaser and favours, and damage the original product.

 

Rise of the Argonauts damages Greek mythology? Wow, I didn't realise a mediocre game was so powerful.

[Aristes]

I love Greek mythology, but it can be pretty confusing without any modern help. Kaftan mentioned a city that actually predates classical Greek history. That's the problem with Greek mythology. It borrowed heavily from other peoples in the area, added some Greek flavor, and then commenced to change over a very long period of time. Homer included several causative factors, including both mortal and divine motives. And so adding a few modern twists probably isn't completely terrible. I agree that designers play fairly loose with the material at hand, but even Virgil and Ovid have alternate accounts of the same "events," and some of those accounts might draw from tellings more or less contemporary to Homer Iliad and Odyssey.

 

No matter what, you have to enjoy the rant. Good Work Kaftan B.

[Tigranes]

Rise of the Argonauts damages Greek mythology? Wow, I didn't realise a mediocre game was so powerful.

 

Sure it does, or does an effect have to be cataclysmic in order to register interest?

 

Anyway, yeah, alternative interpretations or even mistakes in minutiae aren't a problem. But when you start, say, interposing standard Hollywood crap on Greek mythology, you've got to ask where your head is at.

[Walsingham]

They don't do the purchaser and favours, and damage the original product.

 

Rise of the Argonauts damages Greek mythology? Wow, I didn't realise a mediocre game was so powerful.

 

But I would say it does. But I mean in the total sense of a product. It's like someone badly reproducing my arguments on something. If they butcher it enough then they discredit me by association. It's like Michael Moore giving anti-Bush people a bad name.

[Kaftan Barlast]

But myths are highly susceptible to distortion. Some people will go away from plaing RotA believing its distorted myths to be the real thing, and they will in turn influence other people. Add a bunch of incorrect films and games down the line and in a hundred years the distorted versions will be considered the real thing. Sure, the books and documents holding the correct story will still be there, but in the mind of the public, Jason was an elf who defeated the evil wizard Zorbglargh using his magical rainbow-laser nunchucks.

 

Or not.

 

 

But its still extremely annoying when idiots take a piss at mythology that would make kickass games right off the bat.

[Morgoth]

I'm not getting angry over such things, I just think that it is a wasted opportunity for the devs not to squeeze more out of this Greek tale.

 

After all, you spend some 2-3 years of your life on making a game, and as a creative person you better make that worthwhile.

[Volourn]

"But when you start, say, interposing standard Hollywood crap on Greek mythology, you've got to ask where your head is at."

 

L0L It's called Greek MYTHology for a reason. It's not real. Zeus does not exist. Never has. And, as for 'staying true to the myths'.. that's kind of hard to do when the myths vary a lot to begin with. Besdies, imo, one of the coolest things about Greek MYTHology is that it can be mixed up and still keep its center.

[Tigranes]

Volourn, "capable of a wide range of interpretations" doesn't mean "able to hold any crazy thing you think of".

 

ROOFLES!

[Volourn]

The best Greek MYTHology stories are the ones that donj't shy away from different interpretaions even if controversial. Thank the GREEK GODS that Hercules and Xena didn't copy them verbatim. They'd have been boring to watch if they had.

[Trenitay]

Fairy tales aren't real either, but when people tell the story they dont say 'Little Red Riding Hood was a wolf who chopped down a cherry tree and ate her grandma.'

[Volourn]

And, most fairy tales weren't originally the cutesy versions most people are aware of either. *shrug*

Edited January 4, 2009 by Volourn

[Calax]

Fairy tales aren't real either, but when people tell the story they dont say 'Little Red Riding Hood was a wolf who chopped down a cherry tree and ate her grandma.'

except that origionally Red was eaten and no woodsman came along to help her, Sleeping beauty woke up only because of the pain of child birth after she had been raped by prince charming... etc etc.

[Kaftan Barlast]

And Hercules and Xena was complete rubbish, myth-rape or not. Classic case of low budget+crap actors+inane script.The only less-horribly-bad episodes were the one where Bruce Campbell did a cameo, and they still stunk like a festering turd.

 

Now Disney's Hercules, on the other hand, was pretty damn sweet. And that was relatively accurate aswell. Except that Hercules was all nice and didnt kill anyone in drunken rage like he always does in the stories.

 

 

most fairy tales weren't originally the cutesy versions most people are aware of either.

 

Yes, and its butchery that is to blame for that fact. If we didnt have a bunch of meddling sissies altering our fairy tales, theyd be all wicked and cruel like they were in their original form prior to the 20th century when they were censored.

[Nightshape]

*snip*

 

I wish I knew, but I did certainly make myself heard in regards to the flaws in Viking, to one of the designers atleast...

[Tigranes]

Yes, and its butchery that is to blame for that fact. If we didnt have a bunch of meddling sissies altering our fairy tales, theyd be all wicked and cruel like they were in their original form prior to the 20th century when they were censored.

 

They were being butchered and called 'unsuitable for society' as early as ancient Greece, though. I've forgotten a lot of my Classics, but there was concern in, say, ancient Rome about the 'moral depravity' a bulkl of Greek myths were seen to promote, and there was a lot of Christianising of 'pagan' myths and tales later on. Doesn't disagree with what you say though, I guess.

[Volourn]

"And Hercules and Xena was complete rubbish, myth-rape or not. Classic case of low budget+crap actors+inane script.The only less-horribly-bad episodes were the one where Bruce Campbell did a cameo, and they still stunk like a festering turd."

 

Hercuels and Xena were awesome. And, Bruce was cool in them; but he wa smaybe the 100th coolest thing. In fact, his episodes tend to be amongst the worst either series has to offer since he usually got stuck in the low brow 'stupid humour' episodes.

Edited January 5, 2009 by Gorth
Leave out the personal insults

[Hell Kitty]

The real problem is how precious people are when it comes to their own favourite version of a fictional story.

[Tigranes]

So if it's not real, it's not important?

 

Boy, sounds like a line from a lumberjack in the German wilderness in the 700's.

 

That just weighs down the debate with a language of condescension that comes from an essentially flawed position (though whether intentionally or not, I won't presume).

 

I think Kaftan's core point still stands strongly, i.e. too often there is no need to violate the content and spirit of the original work, but it happens anyway, and it doesn't do any good. Certainly, when the myths, or stories of different cultures, etc, are watered down by the guiding conventions and philosophies of the day, it does not good for our range of thoughts and experiences.

[Hell Kitty]

So if it's not real, it's not important?

 

I never said that. It's just that people spend way more time whining about the mere existence of a new version of a story then they do explaining why the original version (or rather, the version they hold up as the One True version of the story) is important.

 

too often there is no need to violate the content and spirit of the original work,

 

So a story cannot be altered on retelling unless there is a need to change it? What does this even mean? A work of fiction doesn't ever need to be told, whether it's an original story or not.

 

but it happens anyway, and it doesn't do any good.

 

As an example, what harm has Disney done with it's popular retelling of old fairy tales?

 

it does not good for our range of thoughts and experiences.

 

Shouting down alternate versions of a story doesn't suggest an interest in range.

Edited January 5, 2009 by Hell Kitty

[Volourn]

GAME OVER.