The Music Thread

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Eurythmics:

 

Thorn In My Side

When Tomorrow Comes

 

Prefab Sprout:

 

Appetite

Cars and Girls

 

Del Shannon:

 

Runaway

[Walsingham]

Samuel Barber, Agnus Dei (choral)

 

It's the music from the game Homeworld, if anyone remembers that. Beautiful and simple.

[Xard]

The Smiths - There Is Light That Never Goes Out

 

best british band of 80's or best british band of 80's? You decide

Edited December 18, 2008 by Xard

[Diogo Ribeiro]

The Smiths - There Is Light That Never Goes Out

 

best british band of 80's or best british band of 80's? You decide

 

I think the 80's were a pretty good decade for pop music. The Smiths were one of the best, but it would be a disservice to ignore others at the time, even from the UK.

[Xard]

The Smiths - There Is Light That Never Goes Out

 

best british band of 80's or best british band of 80's? You decide

 

I think the 80's were a pretty good decade for pop music. The Smiths were one of the best, but it would be a disservice to ignore others at the time, even from the UK.

 

Well, I for one hate 99 % of 80's music. Bloody synthpop, overproduction and hair metal...

 

But there were definetly a lot of good stuff going on, especially in the alternative rock (well, 80's was the era of real aternative rock anyway)... R.E.M. and Pixies are my absolute favourites

 

 

Bob Dylan - Ballad of A Thin Man Live

 

 

yeah... the "JUDAS" performance

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Yeah, I think hair metal has its more deplorable aspects just like some disco did too.

 

As for being overproduced, I guess that depends. Couldn't the same be said of pop music nowadays? What would we consider overproduced - production value that add nothing, or even cripple, a song? If that's the case, I think I can find that common trend nowadays more often than not. Sometimes you get this eccletic mix of styles or supporting artists into a pop song to make it either accessible on a larger scale or to give off an ersatz feeling of the artists beings "in touch with modern sensibilities and cultures" (which often translates into something like Kayne West ruining "American Boy" with his monotone drivel gangsta shiznit posse stuff). On the other hand, the other day a colleague of mine said he didn't like Eurythmics because some songs felt overproduced, and I do concede that it happens in some but in others I found them to fit the core songs pretty well.

[Xard]

Yeah, I think hair metal has its more deplorable aspects just like some disco did too.

 

As for being overproduced, I guess that depends. Couldn't the same be said of pop music nowadays? What would we consider overproduced - production value that add nothing, or even cripple, a song? If that's the case, I think I can find that common trend nowadays more often than not. Sometimes you get this eccletic mix of styles or supporting artists into a pop song to make it either accessible on a larger scale or to give off an ersatz feeling of the artists beings "in touch with modern sensibilities and cultures" (which often translates into something like Kayne West ruining "American Boy" with his monotone drivel gangsta shiznit posse stuff). On the other hand, the other day a colleague of mine said he didn't like Eurythmics because some songs felt overproduced, and I do concede that it happens in some but in others I found them to fit the core songs pretty well.

 

I can't help but view today's musical scene with same distaste I view 80's one. Overproduction is back with big B - and what's worse is that now good pop songwriters are really hard to find - musically average pop song of today loses ten to zero for, say, early Beatles song.

 

Well that wasn't fair comparison as Beatles's whole body of work is compositionally etc. really ****ing hard to parallel... Let's say musically average pop song loses to new wave biggies such as Blondie. Or 70's Fleetwood Mac. Et cetera et cetera. How much as I dislike for example Michael Jackson I still have to admit he had knack at writing catchy melodies. Not to mention Paul McCartney's string of fluffy Wings-hits in 70's.

 

Of course there's good stuff in modern music too - but sad truth is modern bands are still living on 60's and 70's reneissance of songwriting tricks and innovations.

 

Last *big* thing that has happened in popular music was breakthrough of grunge and alternative rock in early 90's. I rather like 90's stuff, especially in comparison to that of 80's.

 

Now we're back to 80's with some differences...

 

- same soulless pop acts

- same soulless rock acts

- overproduction

- era of music tv (for BAD, "MTV killed rock music" as someone put it)

- many bad metal bands

 

Differences:

 

- There's no equivalent of early 80's new wave, post-punk and punk acts and their innovations and synthesises

- Alternative rock is pretty much dead and there's no "college radio" culture to speak of

- rap, which was back then in its full underground power, has largerly declined to **** like 50 cent

- everything is ****ing autotuned

- oh, and back in 80's there was innovative electronica stuff going on

- heavy metal has largerly been transformed from gritty and savage to everyday elevator music (at least here in Finland)

 

 

...so if I look it like this current situation is even worse

 

 

Of course there's good music going on today too in fairly large quantities, but not on the same level of visibility. If you want to find great bands today you really have to search for it; that's the main difference to 60's and 70's when the best acts also tended to be also the most popular acts.

 

Even though it's comedy (well duh) and of course slanders *everything*, Thorpe hits the nail in here. Esp. when it comes to sense of melodies (how many modern hit songs you can remember melody to?)

 

4. A Strong Sense of Melody: Apparently everyone

[SteveThaiBinh]

Jeff Buckley - Morning Theft. Such a shame this guy died; he could've been a classic.

On a related note:

 

Hallelujah : the perfect Christmas song

 

Three versions of the same song are vying for number one, but the original is best.

 

Hallelujah is the song we will all be singing this Christmas, although not necessarily in praise of the Lord. For all its air of religious devotion, Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah is a very secular ballad of desire and rejection, failure and transcendence.

 

It is set to become the most philosophically complex Christmas number one in the history of the pop charts. Three versions are currently competing for that honour, Cohen's stately original (at a lowly number 34), the late Jeff Buckley's towering 1994 recording (currently at three, driven by an internet campaign to save the song from the clutches of Simon Cowell) and the firm favourite from X Factor winner Alexandra Burke.

 

Being Christmas No.1 is a huge status thing in the UK. I think I like the John Cale version best, but I've heard lots of good covers and the song really is too good to be ruined by anyone.

[Musopticon?]

Samuel Barber, Agnus Dei (choral)

 

It's the music from the game Homeworld, if anyone remembers that. Beautiful and simple.

Favorite game ost of mine by far. Great intro and outro tracks(Barber and Yes) and a splendid athmospheric journey of beats and ambients by Paul Ruskay

 

Amplifier - Strange seas of thought

[Pidesco]

Pixies - Cariboooooouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Even though it's comedy (well duh) and of course slanders *everything*, Thorpe hits the nail in here. Esp. when it comes to sense of melodies (how many modern hit songs you can remember melody to?)

 

4. A Strong Sense of Melody: Apparently everyone

[Pidesco]

Pixies - Where is my Mind

[Musopticon?]

Samuel Barber, Agnus Dei (choral)

 

It's the music from the game Homeworld, if anyone remembers that. Beautiful and simple.

Favorite game ost of mine by far. Great intro and outro tracks(Barber and Yes) and a splendid athmospheric journey of beats and ambients by Paul Ruskay

And on that note:

 

[Laozi]

Last *big* thing that has happened in popular music was breakthrough of grunge and alternative rock in early 90's. I rather like 90's stuff, especially in comparison to that of 80's.

 

Differences:

 

- There's no equivalent of early 80's new wave, post-punk and punk acts and their innovations and synthesises

- Alternative rock is pretty much dead and there's no "college radio" culture to speak of

 

- oh, and back in 80's there was innovative electronica stuff going on

 

...so if I look it like this current situation is even worse

 

Of course there's good music going on today too in fairly large quantities, but not on the same level of visibility. If you want to find great bands today you really have to search for it;

 

Weird, I look at the 90's especially the early 90's as one of the least innovated times in music with only a few exceptions like Goo and Trompe and the stuff Dinosaur Jr. put out but were more so carry overs. Most of the good music of the 90's was so far out of the mainstream and never really surfaced till much later (see Elliott Smith and bands like Modest Mouse). Pop-punk revival was really where it was at in the 90's and gave indie music a willing partner for expansion in distribution and outlets for advertising (the punk and indie 'Zine.) Eventually new venues started cropping up and olders ones that had made it on strictly supporting local bands had a wider market and more willing participants. I was one of a lot of kids during the 90's that really got tired of the Alternative song of the month crap being sandwiched between two year old Nirvana and Pearl Jam hits like they were Rock and Roll canon and started looking for something else.

 

Right now is a real high water mark for indie music with the availability of the internetz. Bands don't need to sign on to a major label to become successful and that in itself makes this generation of music the most sustained period of innovation in quite some time. It sounds like you're looking for a trend that you can put your finger on, but thats the beauty of things, if you're in a band you can do what you want, you don't have to conform to a trend or movement in music to be heard. Most of the "innovative electronica stuff" you talk about in the 80's was actually explored in the 70's and then turned to "synth-pop" in the 80's. Much different then really being innovative. If I was to say there was a trend right now I think it is the return of the large band with 5-12 people on the stage and the revival of instruments in rock groups that haven't been seen much outside of folk groups and the renaissance fare. While that might be the edge of the trend, it seems right now the two man group has been enjoying a tremendous amount of success. Boards of Canada and GLO are two examples of groups that have been doing it that way for awhile.

 

Anyway, so there is alot of really good stuff going on right now, perhaps more then at anytime ever before, but I can see where that could escape someone whose posts are largely about stuff that went on more then thirty years ago. Its good most musicians are able to get out of those circles relatively early, take a bit of the old and contextualize it with whats going on now. Good luck in getting out of the strawberry fields, we're all rooting for you.

 

 

GLO ~ Blackbox

Edited December 20, 2008 by Laozi

[Xard]

Dude, I'm never getting out of Strawbery Fields Forever. I just placed it on 9th spot when I made my Top 20 of all time (and what a pain in the ass that was. Even Top 50 proved out to be nigh-impossible...) so nyaaahh!

 

by the way, give me one modern songwriter (for the record, Frank Black/Black Francis era dudes are too old. They're, like, all middle aged or something) that's on par with

 

John Lennon

Paul McCartey

Neil Young

Bob Dylan

Ray Charles

Paul Simon

Stevie Wonder

Lou Reed

Syd Barret

Brian Wilson

Ray Davies

David Bowie

John Cale

 

or give me examples of modern day guitarists that are on level with

 

David Gilmour

Jimi Hendrix

Jimmy Page

Brian May

Robert Fripp

Neil Young

Eric Clapton

Duane Allman

Mark Knopfler

B.B King

 

Out of 80's players Marr deserves the title of being best new guitarist with a landmile

 

bloody baby boomers but the saying "whatever you're going to do, Beatles's have already done it and quite likely better than you would" still holds largerly too. Early Beatles's is still musically on very top of songwriting qualities, especially in chord progressions and melodic twists. Latter day Beatles as serious artists are in innovation fronts impossible to top. Same goes for Velvet Underground which pioneered alt. rock, industrial, punk etc. soundscapes years before those genres existed. Heavy Metal and hard rock hasn't considerably gone beyond power chords and riffs by Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath. Dylan's Highway 61 Revisited is garage rock decades before garage rock. Lou Reed and especially Dylan revolutionized what lyrics could be about. Pink Floyd mastered "album as artform" to level not reached since. Hendrix changed the way guitar is played like no other artist has ever done.

 

Just for starters.

 

Songwritingwise last great innovation was the extreme dynamics (quiet/LOUD/quiet) that Pixies (Black Francis to be exact) practially made up and which has since then been ripped off (thanks Nirvana) to no end. And that happened in late 80's.

 

What new has since then happened in songwriting? Beautiful, long, carefully constructed pieces that work as equivalents of classical symphonies in rock music? Pink Floyd already mastered that. Hard hitting riffs and banshee wails? Hello Led Zeppelin! Pushing the studio technology limits to outer space? Y halo thar Beatles and Floyd! "Back to basics" crunching garage rock? O hai 50's rock'n roll! Mixing rnb and gospel? why, hello there Ray Charles and "I got a woman"! Pulitzer price worthy poetry for lyrics? Hi mr Dylan, how's it going on Desolation Row? Utterly decadent, no taboos lyrics? sup Lou, whazzzup? The ultraconfessional, utterly uncompromising songwriter? Hi John, you really should see psychiatrist. Hey, let's tinker with all these weird electronic devises and call it electronic music or something! Kraftwerk, what's that? Is it something to eat? How about "rapping" words to some steady backbeat and call it rap or something, preferrably with socially aware lyrics? uhh, rap's been around since 70's... What about we show off our prowness with our instruments and aim at classical music level of technicality in our playing and thus "bring rock higher as art form"? Hello King Crimson and Yes...

 

Really, the list goes on and on.

 

When I listen to modern day band I barely ever hear something that I wouldn't find from records of 60's-70's and early 80's new wave/post-punk/alternative rock giants.

 

Weird, I look at the 90's especially the early 90's as one of the least innovated times in music with only a few exceptions like Goo and Trompe and the stuff Dinosaur Jr. put out but were more so carry overs. Most of the good music of the 90's was so far out of the mainstream and never really surfaced till much later (see Elliott Smith and bands like Modest Mouse). Pop-punk revival was really where it was at in the 90's and gave indie music a willing partner for expansion in distribution and outlets for advertising (the punk and indie 'Zine.) Eventually new venues started cropping up and olders ones that had made it on strictly supporting local bands had a wider market and more willing participants. I was one of a lot of kids during the 90's that really got tired of the Alternative song of the month crap being sandwiched between two year old Nirvana and Pearl Jam hits like they were Rock and Roll canon and started looking for something else.

 

I was referring to alt rock breakthrough which usurped stadion rock it's 80's status of cool and especially the breakthrough (and bastardisation, apparently) of last really new and innovative rock songwriting trick, the extreme dynamics. And that stuff became the mainstream like corporate rock (best example of all time: the horrific "we built this city" song) was in 80's.

 

Right now is a real high water mark for indie music with the availability of the internetz. Bands don't need to sign on to a major label to become successful and that in itself makes this generation of music the most sustained period of innovation in quite some time. It sounds like you're looking for a trend that you can put your finger on, but thats the beauty of things, if you're in a band you can do what you want, you don't have to conform to a trend or movement in music to be heard.

 

Never said there was no good stuff going on. However, care to point out one innovation in songwriting that can't be traced back to 60's reneissance of poprock songwriting, 70's guitarwork and punk or new wave/alt. rock acts such like early R.E.M. ? There was reason why Thom Yorke went on whining before release of Kid A as guitar rock being dead.

 

Most of the "innovative electronica stuff" you talk about in the 80's was actually explored in the 70's and then turned to "synth-pop" in the 80's. Much different then really being innovative.

 

My bad, I somehow managed to screw up my brain and considered Kraftwerk et al as early 80's bands while they were 70's stuff

 

So yeah, you're right.

 

If I was to say there was a trend right now I think it is the return of the large band with 5-12 people on the stage and the revival of instruments in rock groups that haven't been seen much outside of folk groups and the renaissance fare. While that might be the edge of the trend, it seems right now the two man group has been enjoying a tremendous amount of success. Boards of Canada and GLO are two examples of groups that have been doing it that way for awhile.

 

where you live?

 

Anyway, so there is alot of really good stuff going on right now, perhaps more then at anytime ever before, but I can see where that could escape someone whose posts are largely about stuff that went on more then thirty years ago. Its good most musicians are able to get out of those circles relatively early, take a bit of the old and contextualize it with whats going on now. Good luck in getting out of the strawberry fields, we're all rooting for you.

 

As some music critic bored of whining about modernm music said that in certain way this year is best in year in the history of music, because A) we have all the old greats B) and new greats last year didn't have!

 

By that logic 2009 will be even greater year... and 2010 etc. etc.

 

Prince - Purple Rain

Edited December 20, 2008 by Xard

[Xard]

Stevie Wonder - Superstition

[Xard]

Pixies - Wild Honey Pie

 

best. cover. ever.

[Xard]

Frank Black - Calistan

[Walsingham]

I'd forgotten about those turanic raiders. That was an awesome bit of the game when they first appeared. The contrast with your scientific looking outfit was really extreme. Gave you thsi real sense of "Oh my god, alien life! ...and they're mahdi asshats."

[Shryke]

the 69 eyes - gothic girl

 

tehehe

[Shryke]

deathstars - tongues

[Laozi]

Dude, I'm never getting out of Strawbery Fields Forever. I just placed it on 9th spot when I made my Top 20 of all time (and what a pain in the ass that was. Even Top 50 proved out to be nigh-impossible...) so nyaaahh!

 

by the way, give me one modern songwriter (for the record, Frank Black/Black Francis era dudes are too old. They're, like, all middle aged or something) that's on par with

 

 

Well, you've certainly managed to take the conversation somewhere..? I hope the top 20 and 50 thing was meant to be ironic. As far as influence and the 60's and 70's thing, most art is influenced by what occurred previously whether it be because of extrapolation, blending, or counterpoint, so thats somewhat inherent. I guess there are people who listen to the same music there whole lives, people who read the same books, look at the same pictures, I just have a shorter attention span. As far as your songwriters list goes, you can just look back at my post in these music threads, everyone I listen to I think is a talented songwriter. Townes Van Zandt is just as clued into a part of me as Fat Mike is. Doc Watson as Robert Smith. Ian MacKaye and Guy Picciotto as Skip James. As far as proof of talented modern songwriters try people like Jeff Tweedy, Conor Oberst, Jeff Mangum, I guess thats proof, I dunno. For the truth is three art school kids from Liverpool just aren't able to encompass the whole of what I feel as a human. The whole "whatever you're going to do, Beatles's have already done it and quite likely better than you would" just doesn't ring true. I've heard better r&b covers and who does a better Buddy Holly then Buddy Holly? kidding ofcourse

 

 

oh and not Kraftwerk as much as Brian Eno

 

 

 

Beirut ~ My Family's Role In The World Revolution

[Aristes]

I like to listen to new music and I often come here to find out what other folks have to offer. I do listen to the same music and read the same books and look at the same pictures over and over again. I'll probably do that for the rest of my life. I also listen to new music and read new books and look at new pictures. I hope I'll always do that as well. When I look at something old, I hope to see something new. When I look at something new, I hope I find something familiar in it.

 

Whoa! It's almost like I've been on the ganga. Who needs drugs when you think thoughts like these? haha

 

Christmas is the Time -- Lou Rawls

[Meshugger]

I find it funny that Leonard Cohen's "Hallelujah" (or any cover of it) is played at christmas. That song has some serious sexual undertones and transendence. Not exactly a first thing to come to mind when doing a christmas charol.

 

And oh,

 

Jeff Buckley - "Hallelujah"

[Meshugger]

Hay guise, do you know what is the best rock song ever made?

 

Neil Young - My, My, Hey, Hey (Out of the Blue)

 

Yeah, that one.

Edited December 21, 2008 by Meshugger