MMO, please?

[Zoma]

Only Feargus was involved as the producer if I am not mistaken.

 

Hence you see Bioware poking fun at Feargus by putting his name inside as one of the NPCs in both games.

[random n00b]

And it wouldn't interest the persons interested in Obsidian's games, read: target audience. At least it's neither my nor many other's cup of tea as shown by the answers in this thread.

Fortunately, Obsidz' clientele extends beyond the handful of jaded regulars here.

[Volourn]

"for an oversatisfied market when even the most hyped games tend to fail."

 

L0L But, no.

[themadhatter114]

Feargus wasn't the only Obsidianite who was involved with Baldur's Gate. According to Chris Parker, from the recent Alpha Protocol roundtable:

 

I personally produced the entire Baldur’s Gate series for BioWare at Black Isle Studios.

 

And who knows if any others were?

 

Regardless of who developed the Baldur's Gate series, I would count myself among those who started following Black Isle after Baldur's Gate came out, despite finding out that Bioware developed it. Even so, because Baldur's Gate introduced me to Black Isle, I later picked up the Icewind Dale games and later went back and picked up Torment and Fallout 1 & 2. So, I would say that I've been following this 'team' since Baldur's Gate, though I guess obviously when Vince Lombardi went to the Redskins, regardless of how many assistants might have gone with him, they didn't become the Packers. But I certainly would not have been nearly as interested in KotoR2 if I hadn't discovered that Obsidian was started by some of the crew from Black Isle.

 

As for Obsidian doing an MMO, my opinion is the less of them the better. If I really wanted to play an endless game I'd simply join an NWN or NWN2 persistent world, or a MUD, or just rack up thousands of lines with infinite spin Tetris. I don't want to pay subscription fees to play games, and personally hope that Obsidian's future announcements continue to appeal to me, because I don't really buy RPG's from anyone else.

 

Regarding LucasArts, they might have approved the story for KotoR2, but perhaps more comments like this one from Avellone have gotten back to George:

 

As an example, I’ve always liked the Star Wars movies, but I always thought the premise behind the Force sucked.

Edited July 28, 2008 by themadhatter114

[Tigranes]

No need to flame people. It is not the easiest of things to read up on decade-long histories of Obsidianite employees.

 

For most people I think BIS and Bioware were both associated with BG, IWD, PS:T - especially since all 3 shared the same engine.

[Xard]

Well, as OE has denied any will for doing MMO in past and I don't see drastic events changing those views...

 

I for one hope OE doesn't make MMO

 

Obsidian has about 140 developers. They work on 3 titles at time and this worker base is divided between these titles (with obviously swapping going on). As it is about half (if not more, I can't remember exactly) of OE's people work full time on Alpha Protocol as it is obviously their leading title at the moment. NWN2:SoZ is expansion pack and thus feature less developers working on it simply because there's less work to do. My guess would be about 20-30 people but that's just a guess. Rest are obviously working on Aliens RPG (though some might be already planning on MYSTARY project that follows SoZ)

 

 

Developing MMO's takes ****loads long time, a lot resources AND humongous load of people developing it.

 

Only way Obsidian could reach the capacity to properly develop MMO without compromising heavil when it comes to other titles was big growth out of nowhere, which goes against Feargus's will they stay a relatively small but more close knitted company compared to megadevelopers such as Blizzard.

 

If OE would now start MMO it would mean bad for rest of their projects because it takes so much developers and time and money. Even if they managed to ship the MMO ultimately and it wouldn't be catastrophe they'd still needs considerably sized team work on game non-stop, keeping the servers up, developing new content, squishing bugs and "fixing" and unmaking "fixes" in never ending journey for game balance.

 

 

--------------------

 

 

MMO's simply aren't worth the hassle. There's already great MMO's in the market. Good RPG's not so much. And due to my tastes I'd by far prefer OE working on fantastic single player games instead of sinking time, manpower and money into MMO that would propably be financial failure anyway (competition is HARD in that genre)

 

So no MMO's please

Edited July 28, 2008 by Xard

[Tigranes]

Xard has it right, really. An MMO would mean a dramatic change in the team scale/organisation for Obsidian, and it's not something they will be able to do unless they draw their rolling projects program to a close. So, I wouldn't predict it happening anytime before 2010 or 11.

[gigahound]

I'm certainly not going to debate endlessly, was just curious. Kinda sad that the company's history is being forgotten, I'm sure I don't have all the details as clear as I once did, but that's the way it goes I guess.

 

Thanks for the discussion folks.

[Xard]

huh?

 

BIS didn't do MMO's

[Volourn]

No matter how one slices and dices it, BIo developed BG. Bis published. Of course, BIS guys were involved in the game. That's what publishers do. They have final say. Just like there were LA guys involved in KOTOR2 development, and Atari guys involved in NWN2 development. That doesn't mean LA and Atari developed those games. Obsidian did.

 

Also, the connection between Obsidian and BIS are just a handful (albeit some important members). Nowher enear the majority.

 

Obsidian is Obsidian. And, that's a good thing. BIS was a failed division, Obsidian is a growing company.

 

DEATH TO BIS! LONG LIVE OBSIDIAN!

 

P.S. On MMORPG, I'm not abig fan of them; but it wouldn't be the end of the world if Obsidian decided to make one, and I have no doubt they have the talent to do it, too.

[Xard]

Yeah yeah Volo we've heard that hundred times

 

 

Core of the Obz, as well as their developing ideals and such similar stuff, are directly from Black Isle days. You could say OE is Black Isle reincarnated

[Sand]

I wouldn't say that. I say Obsidian is Black Isle Unchained!

 

Unchained from the ineptitude that is Herve Caen.

[Xard]

heh, indeed

[Volourn]

"Yeah yeah Volo we've heard that hundred times"

 

Yeah, yeah.

 

And, we heard the silly Obsidian is BIS stuff a 100 times. Doesn't make it true.

[Xard]

New reincarnation isn't same as the old one. However remembering how company philosophy and developing ideals plus lots of people from BIS came to work in OE over the time comparison is permittable

[gigahound]

Ok, maybe I feel like a little debate now.

 

I might have some of the semantics of my understanding wrong, but it doesn't take much research to find that the founding members of Obsidian were involved in those games.

 

Obsidian Entertainment is the first time they all got together as a unique team, but individually each one of them worked on various aspects of those games at different points in their careers.

 

For instance, one of them might have the product development engineer for Fallout2, and one of them might have written much of the story for Planescape:Torment.

 

I understand that they were never a team together before, but each one had a presence in at least one of the the following games:

 

Fallout2

Planescape:Torment

Baldurs Gate

Baldur's Gate II

Icewind Dale

Icewind Dale II

and the expansions for each.

 

And the research that I did suggests that most of them, if not all of them, did more than just watch from a safe distance.

 

I really tried to hold back, I don't want to be the cause of some great debate, but I did the research...even offered a link in a previous post, all I did was click on the names that the link led to.

 

*shrug*

 

I didn't join these forums back in 2004 because I though Neverwinter's Night or that Star Wars game was that hot, I came here because they came here.

Edited July 31, 2008 by gigahound

[Walsingham]

Right, I've read the backstory...

 

We can debate the commercial sense of shifting from a core strength to a another average as much as we like. Personally I think it makes as much sense as Ben and Jerry's quitting ice-cream for soup-making.

 

However, the really important thing is: what exactly would you class as the features of a good MMO?

 

It's my contention that you're going to want an immersive environment, and interesting stuff to do. But tied to my contention I'd say neither are possible in a commercial MMO. An immersive environment requires the collaboration of the players and most people simply don't have what it takes to create an immersive environment. They can't act and they don't want to. Interesting stuff in my opinion needs a human being to imagine it and articulate it. To be truly interesting it also has to delivr changes to the global environment. There have to be consequences. Which from what I hear is frakking impossible in an MMO.

[samm]

gigahound: Learn the difference between a publisher with involvment in production (which was the role of BIS with BG and BGII titles) and a developer. If you repeat it a hundred times and cite your research sources it doesn't make it more true...

 

 

Walsingham:

I don't think it's a great idea to shift focus when you're only experienced in one field. But as Obsidian is growing, new devs with new background come in and the existing ones get the courage to try something new, so it's not totally off the track to ask for an MMOG.

As far as the "interesting" thing goes, it's only partially true. More important to MMORPGs is the factor of collecting things: New titles, XP, collectable items, feats... combined with enough things to do: you have to have the choice at any moment to finish collection X or craft item Y which is the base for item Z or buy clothes for your character or buy furniture for your home or finish a quest or travel to the new area that came with the latest patch or try the new race that came with the latest patch etc.

[Volourn]

"I don't think it's a great idea to shift focus when you're only experienced in one field."

 

That's silly.

 

BIO went from meedical software to action/advenbture games to RPGs to Action RPGs to now MMORPGs. Yet, they've succeeded throughout.

 

I think stating that obsidian (or any game company) should stick to one genre/subsection of game is silly and belittles their skills. It's like saying they shouldn't do an Aliens game because Obsidian only knows how to make fantasy style games .

 

It's amazing that a 'BIo fanboy' like myself has mor faith in Obsidian than their own fanboys. LOL

Edited July 31, 2008 by Volourn

[Xard]

it's not matter of faith. It is matter of what one would like to see OE working on and for me that is not MMORPG for the reasons cited above

[Volourn]

I'm referring to those who (if that's you it includes you if not than don't worry) who keep spouting on how Obsidian should stick with 'what they're good at/have experience' with crowd. It's an insult to Obsidian to claim that they wouldn't be good enough to make a MMORPG.

[samm]

I think you're getting this wrong It's not about faith in this studio. I think they're good, and have a lot of potential to be better. Cool down, rearead

[Dark_Raven]

This is an RPG/Action game studio.

 

Thx Gbye

[themadhatter114]

I don't think it has anything to do with not having faith in Obsidian. Obsidian is good at what they do, what they do is what I like, and I'd prefer that they keep doing it. I don't want them to do an MMO even if they could pull off a good one, and I think most people in this thread feel the same way. Monthly fees suck. Perhaps if Obsidian wants to create something that only requires X-Box Live to play, maybe, but I prefer solid single player games.

[gigahound]

Well, if some of you want to believe that these guys did nothing more than watch from a distance when those past games were in development, that's up to you.

 

As for the MMO thing, you guys who don't want it are entitled to your preference. But some of your arguments don't really make sense, as others have pointed out.

 

"I don't want obsidian to do an MMO cause they suck" just doesn't cut it. I can appreciate that the company is not staffed for a project like that and it is also acceptable that they have no intentions of pursuing such an endeavor, however they certainly could do a quality MMO if backed by a proper philosophy such as Blizzard has operates under.

 

As for what kind of online experience I would like to see, I'd be happy with what I brought up in my first post in this discussion; an FPS style action game such as Hellgate:London, but with a heavier dose of sci-fi. An open and immersive would is nice, but it doesn't have to be as massive as WoW. The key is to have a decent idea with the attitude that it won't be released until it is flippin done and playable, a philosophy that seems to be on a continuing decline with every publisher of pc games, online as well as offline.

 

Obsidian is one of the few entities left who seem to care if their games are playable or not.

 

Anyhow, I'm not knocking anyone's preference, and so far the discussion has remained civil, so I'm happy to keep at it if more people want to chime in.