PETITION: PLEASE CHANGE THE INFINITE AMMO DESIGN

[Slowtrain]

Well, this was kinda "we got rationale so stop asking stupid questions" when no such rationale was given

 

Well, the devs have done what we asked: they came aboard and gave us some rationale. To berate them anymore over this decision is somewhat useless and may inhibit further dialogue.

 

 

My apologies, Xard, if it came across in any way as saying the questions you (we) are asking is stupid. That was not intended. I personally think the question is very valid. And I am very much "on your side" so to speak as far as some of your concerns go.

 

I just think we've all seen enough situations on boards like this over the years in whcih the same ground keep getting walked on over and over again, and after a certain poitn nothing worthwhile comes of it, and eventually the devs just start tuning it all out.

 

They way I see it, the explanations have been given with as much depth as we're going to get for now, and we simply have to be OK with that, cause we're not goign to change. DOwn the road as new info is revealed I'm sure the discussion can be reopened.

 

Plase take no offense.

[Humodour]

She's jailbait.

 

We can hope she turns 18 in course of the game can we?

 

Well the legal age in Australia is 16...

 

And I'm not easy to please, I'm only slightly less nitpicky than, say, Saint Proverbius.

 

Oh dear.

 

P.S.: I now support unlimited ammo in the context of this game.

 

Traitor

 

Fascist!

[Xard]

No offense taken

 

She's jailbait.

 

We can hope she turns 18 in course of the game can we?

 

Well the legal age in Australia is 16...

 

Same here in Finland, but I have to play game for americana moralists

 

 

And I'm not easy to please, I'm only slightly less nitpicky than, say, Saint Proverbius.

 

Oh dear.

 

P.S.: I now support unlimited ammo in the context of this game.

 

Traitor

 

Fascist!

 

Aussie!

Edited June 4, 2008 by Xard

[Jorian Drake]

No offense taken

 

She's jailbait.

 

We can hope she turns 18 in course of the game can we?

 

Well the legal age in Australia is 16...

 

Same here in Finland, but I have to play game for americana moralists

 

well, the legal age for 'that' is 14 in Hungary, if the girl is wanting it herself, then no jail for the guy (however, if the girl claims she was tricked or something later, the guy will be in trouble)

[mkreku]

( Also, related to this )

Good read! I actually remember playing Hacker.. but I was like.. 12 at the time and the game was way too difficult for me.

 

But I grew up loving games like Guild of Thieves, Zork and the original King's Quest. Those games actually demanded that you type in the right thing to solve problems. I was a kid at the time and knew almost no English. But just to be able to play those games I learned English and by the time I got to the University, it was a breeze for me.

 

I like this quote:

 

So my call to other game designers is a simple request. The next time you fear about adding a feature because it seems a bit too 'high brow' and requires some knowledge, please leave it in. Don't apologise for it or panic. A lot of gamers are actually intelligent and educated. We aren't as stupid as the tabloid press thinks...

 

If only someone dared to make the assumption that not everyone playing their games are idiots.. *nudgenudge*

[Xard]

Clearly OE now sees error of their ways

 

 

...there's just something about punk girls with guns

Edited June 4, 2008 by Xard

[Humodour]

Clearly OE now sees error of their ways

 

 

...there's just something about punk girls with guns

 

Shot through the heart, and you're to blame. Darling, you give love a bad name.

Edited June 4, 2008 by Krezack

[Xard]

heh, well played

 

 

edit: That "error of their ways" was reference to Jorian's post, not in mkreku's though it works either way to be honest

Edited June 4, 2008 by Xard

[Patrick K Mills]

I'm just copying the new build so I don't have time to address everything right now- maybe later.

 

I wish I could just lay it all out for you guys to convince you that this really isn't a big issue, but there are three big problems with that.

 

1) I have to fight with one hand tied behind my back. We have rules about what we can and can't divulge, and while we're pretty liberal with those rules, fully explaining all the reasons why this choice was a good one touches on so many systems and technical requirements and in so much detail that I'd be pushing the envelope. Maybe later though- we'll see.

 

2) There is absolutely no way to convince everyone in text. Honestly, some of you won't be on-board with this until you've played it, and that leads into number three...

 

3) Some people won't like it no matter what. Some of you probably won't like this game. That's not saying anything about you guys or the game, it's just the law of averages. I fully expect, after release, to read on a forum somewhere (maybe here) about how Alpha Protocol is the worst game ever made and the number one reason was... maybe infinite ammo? Who knows? People dislike a lot of good games for a lot of silly reasons. It's very subjective.

[Sand]

Becides which, you're arguing that infinite ammo in ME is realistic for the setting and that it wouldn't be for AP, so you're pretty much just generating 100% mouth-poop again by saying that this has nothing to do with realism.

 

I never said that it is realistic. ME is hardly realistic in any sense of the word, Nicky-boy. I said it makes sense for the setting in how they justified it. Read what is there and not what you want to be there.

[Alvin Nelson]

I look forward to more info on the tone and feel of the game in the future.

 

Thnks to all the devs for their reponses.

 

I would say scour the interweb and newsstands for more info on AP in the upcoming months. I'm sure that something will turn up.

[Sand]

Hey, Patrick, there is one sure way that you could convince me. *hint* *hint*

 

I would be more than willing to tell you guys everything you are doing wrong and right in the game. FOR FREE!

 

Can't go wrong with that, right? Right?

[Jorian Drake]

 

 

*facepalm*

 

 

[Joseph Bulock]

Forgoing a proper ammo system for spending that development time elsewhere is a bit problematic. Aren't you worried no one will buy the game just on faith that it's actually a worthwhile trade off ?.

 

If our game had so little to offer that unlimited ammo was a big enough turn off that people wouldn't buy it, we'd still have much bigger problems than just having made an unpopular choice on ammo.

[GreasyDogMeat]

Many people have pointed this out, but the big issue that I personally have with infinite ammo is setting and tone. The whole spy thing, with all the JBs, Bauer, Bond & Borne brings up images of spies/agents using small arms weapons, running out of ammo and having to use their ninja skills to survive, not firing their pistol... non-stop till the end of time.

 

Hell, even in Neverwinter Nights you don't have unlimited arrow supply.

[Gorgon]

Forgoing a proper ammo system for spending that development time elsewhere is a bit problematic. Aren't you worried no one will buy the game just on faith that it's actually a worthwhile trade off ?.

 

If our game had so little to offer that unlimited ammo was a big enough turn off that people wouldn't buy it, we'd still have much bigger problems than just having made an unpopular choice on ammo.

Well i'm talking about the people, like me for instance, that are automatically turned off without knowing very much at all about the game. A lot of grumpy old men buy games.

[Jorian Drake]

...The whole spy thing, with all the JBs...

huh?

 

how many bulocks are still there? I only know of one.

[Tale]

Many people have pointed this out, but the big issue that I personally have with infinite ammo is setting and tone. The whole spy thing, with all the JBs, Bauer, Bond & Borne brings up images of spies/agents using small arms weapons, running out of ammo and having to use their ninja skills to survive, not firing their pistol... non-stop till the end of time.

 

Hell, even in Neverwinter Nights you don't have unlimited arrow supply.

Quick question. If setting and tone are the issue, why are you bringing up Neverwinter Nights?

[Dunedain]

I agree that an infinite ammo design is very bad for the various reasons already mentioned. The game should have limited ammo for all weapons. You get more ammo for your guns by buying it, stealing it from weapons lockers and such, or getting the ammo off of dead enemies. Part of the fun in a role-playing game is trying to find hidden weapons stashes and things like that, and it's very satisfying to take weapons and ammo off of bad guys that were trying to kill you with those weapons moments earlier.

 

*Signed*

[Sand]

So far no developer has given a good reason, in terms of setting and story background, why there is unlimited ammo. If there is a solid story based reason behind it Obsidianites, then I am 100% behind it.

[Tale]

I wager that Sand isn't going to be behind it.

[Sand]

I wager that Sand isn't going to be behind it.

 

Not that they really give a damn anyway.

[Matthew Rorie]

Guys, I hate to say it, but I think the answers already given are the ones you're going to have to live with for the moment. You may want to know every single thing about the game right now, but that's not going to happen. There'll be plenty more info on the game coming out in the coming months, but for now, as mentioned, the game is still a long way away from release and there's plenty we can't and shouldn't talk about.

 

I'm not saying this discussion can't go on, but let's try not to take the tone where answers are demanded. We love our forumites, but we're not going to be able to tell you everything about the game, regardless of how much you want us to, or even regardless of how much we would like to.

[Jorian Drake]

Guys, I hate to say it, but I think the answers already given are the ones you're going to have to live with for the moment. You may want to know every single thing about the game right now, but that's not going to happen. There'll be plenty more info on the game coming out in the coming months, but for now, as mentioned, the game is still a long way away from release and there's plenty we can't and shouldn't talk about.

 

I'm not saying this discussion can't go on, but let's try not to take the tone where answers are demanded. We love our forumites, but we're not going to be able to tell you everything about the game, regardless of how much you want us to, or even regardless of how much we would like to.

is understandable

 

 

and infinite ammo can be explained with prototype energy weapon technology (infinite energy) or nano-tech (creates its own ammo) anyways

[Cycloneman]

So far no developer has given a good reason, in terms of setting and story background, why there are skill points. If there is a solid story based reason behind it Obsidianites, then I am 100% behind it.

 

The big issue that I personally have with skill points is setting and tone. The whole spy thing, with all the JBs, Bauer, Bond & Borne brings up images of spies/agents using their wits and skills to win, but such characters never become significantly more skilled over the course of the story.

Edited June 4, 2008 by Cycloneman