"Procedural universe: procedural programming is a technique to let the computer generate the game universe on-the-fly, in real-time on request, rather than manually building everything. Because of this, the generated universe can be absolutely huge. In Infinity, billions of worlds, most of them never explored by any player, are awaiting the adventurous soul."

 

The procedural algorithms create millions of planets, stars etc..diferents from each others, ready to explore.

 

That featute, whit planet landing and seamless experience. I mean ,any loading times or unnatural transitions from space to planet surface, could make an Alien RPG game totally awesome.

 

Just some examples from this game in developement.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BZNJOj3Sv0

 

 

 

 

http://www.infinity-universe.com/InfinityF...ewforum.php?f=6

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I have no clue how can this be implemented in a game like Alien RPG, but for spacefligh, exploration, seems to be a winner option.

Edited December 20, 200718 yr by Weyland

After MotB I realized again the edge of handcrafted areas

The idea is old

 

Elite used a procedurally generated universe (although with the same start value, so the galaxies would always be the same).

 

Wasn't there a similar thread recently, discussing the viability of generated scenarios vs. crafted scenarios, mentioning things like generic dungeons and Diablos quest system etc.?

 

It might end up being a weighing of pros and cons, is the ROI sufficient to justify the time and effort that goes into creating a "game creator". Most companies can't even seem to get automated loot generation or level balancing right.

The idea is old

 

Elite used a procedurally generated universe (although with the same start value, so the galaxies would always be the same).

 

Wasn't there a similar thread recently, discussing the viability of generated scenarios vs. crafted scenarios, mentioning things like generic dungeons and Diablos quest system etc.?

 

It might end up being a weighing of pros and cons, is the ROI sufficient to justify the time and effort that goes into creating a "game creator". Most companies can't even seem to get automated loot generation or level balancing right.

 

A Proceduraly generated universe makes my imagination fly...

 

Tons of unknow planets and planetoids to explore, resources to investigate, WY stations, dangerous Aliens, infested colonies like LV-426...Every time you play you will discovered diferent worlds.

 

Im thinking in the Nostromo, when the ships landed the first time in LV-426. That tension, the "unknow"...That was a great moment (even when they explore the surface whit the spacesuits). Just imagine to explore hundreds of planets proceduraly generated in that way...coz you have a sos signal or something.

I must say, I'm VERY impressed with this engine!

I believe it was Tycho of Penny-Arcade who brought this up in a way that has stuck with me most. Emergent gameplay and procedural content are an attempt to create fun with an equation. And I think there's a problem with that. My disagreement with it isn't simply of principle, but of experience, I've yet to see a procedural work come out half as beautiful or engrossing as one designed by an artist who knows how to properly use colors, forms, and space.

I believe it was Tycho of Penny-Arcade who brought this up in a way that has stuck with me most. Emergent gameplay and procedural content are an attempt to create fun with an equation. And I think there's a problem with that. My disagreement with it isn't simply of principle, but of experience, I've yet to see a procedural work come out half as beautiful or engrossing as one designed by an artist who knows how to properly use colors, forms, and space.

 

In the vids, thouse planets are proceduraly, and they look awesome.

The "hand make" worlds loose all that "im the first to discover,explore know about that place" fealing.

 

Elite and other past games, have old engines. The infinity engines shows planets and moons in a very fashion way.

 

Examples: (all for this engine, all are planets and moon proceduraly generated) BUT whitout the textures and grafic effects of the engine implemented.

 

http://www.infinity-universe.com/Infinity/...net_full_46.jpg

http://www.infinity-universe.com/Infinity/...net_full_40.jpg

http://www.infinity-universe.com/Infinity/...anet_417_65.jpg

http://www.infinity-universe.com/Infinity/.../planet_410.jpg

 

Even asteroids and rings looks grate: Chack out this awesome video.

 

 

http://www.fl-tw.com/Infinity/Media/Videos...motion_blur.avi

Edited December 20, 200718 yr by Weyland

In the vids, thouse planets are proceduraly, and they look awesome.

The "hand make" worlds loose all that "im the first to discover,explore know about that place" fealing.

 

Exploration isn't about feeling first. It's about finding something unique. Procedural generation can not produce unique, it produces variation.

 

The only reason this looks good is because of the quality of the assets used.

Edited December 20, 200718 yr by Tale

Booo to random generation.

In the vids, thouse planets are proceduraly, and they look awesome.

The "hand make" worlds loose all that "im the first to discover,explore know about that place" fealing.

 

Exploration isn't about feeling first. It's about finding something unique. Procedural generation does not produce unique, it produces variation.

 

The only reason this looks good is because of the quality of the assets used.

 

Planets and moons whitout atmosphere looks pretty similar. Whit a nice bunch of textures,efects (phisics, i mean if that planet have that gravity or that atmosphere pressuere this or that happend to a objet in the surface) and a good engine, you could have a lot of differents and unique planets, moons and solar sistems. Ans most important, are totally unknow for everybody but you...even developers

So what if there is all this realestate, if it's just the same crap all over again with no human factor, no story, no discernable intelligence behind it.

 

Kinda like the shrines in morrowind, or the caves in oblivion - same ****, but sligthly different.

Edited December 20, 200718 yr by Gorgon

So what if there is all this realestate, if it's just the same crap all over again with no human factor, no story, no discernable intelligence behind it.

 

Kinda like the shrines in morrowind, or the caves in oblivion - same ****, but sligthly different.

 

Sorry but thouse examples are not proceduraly generated, but hand make.

 

No human factor? the engine could generate a ramdom submission or quest in thouse places.

 

Mass effect , or even oblivion were hand make, but the feeling of "the same everytime" was there...The problem is, whit hand make, its the same every time you "re-play" the game.

Mass effect , or even oblivion were hand make, but the feeling of "the same everytime" was there...The problem is, whit hand make, its the same every time you "re-play" the game.

But most importantly, Mask of the Betrayer was handmade and it was glorious. I doubt ME and Oblivion really play into this at all, considering it's an Obsidian game.

 

Furthermore, I don't want another Daggerfall where everything is just reusing the same assets. I'm ready for some randomisation, particularly if the game has free exploration of the universe, but I'd like a handcrafted core rather than leaving it for the computer.

In the vids, thouse planets are proceduraly, and they look awesome.

The "hand make" worlds loose all that "im the first to discover,explore know about that place" fealing.

 

Exploration isn't about feeling first. It's about finding something unique. Procedural generation does not produce unique, it produces variation.

 

The only reason this looks good is because of the quality of the assets used.

 

Planets and moons whitout atmosphere looks pretty similar. Whit a nice bunch of textures,efects (phisics, i mean if that planet have that gravity or that atmosphere pressuere this or that happend to a objet in the surface) and a good engine, you could have a lot of differents and unique planets, moons and solar sistems. Ans most important, are totally unknow for everybody but you...even developers

Who cares if they're unknown? What's the big draw of "unknown." You're obsessed with calling things unknown. An unknown mountain that nobody but yourself can see is the most pointless thing in the world.

 

It's like claiming the work of a thousand typewriter monkeys is somehow better than an excellent work of literature because thgoosdodhoidagghodghoi is something only you can see. Sure, procedural techniques can advance to the point where that kind of gibberish can instead be replaced with a sentence abiding by form and diction, but it will fail cohesiveness and artistic vision. But hey, you're the only one that can see the pointless sentence!

Edited December 20, 200718 yr by Tale

In the vids, thouse planets are proceduraly, and they look awesome.

The "hand make" worlds loose all that "im the first to discover,explore know about that place" fealing.

 

Exploration isn't about feeling first. It's about finding something unique. Procedural generation does not produce unique, it produces variation.

 

The only reason this looks good is because of the quality of the assets used.

 

Planets and moons whitout atmosphere looks pretty similar. Whit a nice bunch of textures,efects (phisics, i mean if that planet have that gravity or that atmosphere pressuere this or that happend to a objet in the surface) and a good engine, you could have a lot of differents and unique planets, moons and solar sistems. Ans most important, are totally unknow for everybody but you...even developers

Who cares if they're unknown? What's the big draw of "unknown." You're obsessed with calling things unknown. An unknown mountain that nobody but yourself can see is the most pointless thing in the world.

 

Well calling exploration to visit some place everyone knows sounds really...nice.

 

Anyway, you could have the entire game hands maked (in a closed section of the space), once you finished it you should be able to continue the exploration, if the engine could generate proceduraly sistems and planets for your fun.

Well calling exploration to visit some place everyone knows sounds really...nice.

 

You simply have an awkward concept of exploration. It's about seeing something interesting for yourself. Not seeing something bland that nobody else sees. Some people may have that as their goal, but they're often a bit weird. The kind of people who try bungie jumping out of airplanes simply because nobody else has done it before.

 

Mass effect , or even oblivion were hand make, but the feeling of "the same everytime" was there...The problem is, whit hand make, its the same every time you "re-play" the game.

The problem with Oblivion, I haven't played Mass Effect was that they hand-made their areas by simply reusing the same assets over and over and over again with little artistry. Which is precisely how procedural methods accomplish what they attempt. By reusing the same assets repeatedly but with a little variation.

 

Morrowind was much more satisfying for exploration. It was hand crafted, but not reusing. You could play through several times and find new things each time, much of it interesting. You could play through several times and completely miss the collapsed cave with the skeleton of Indiana Jones. You could play through and hardly ever experience the game from outside of Balmora. But you go and explore Tel Aviv? Spend your time there and see how wonderfully different it was.

Edited December 20, 200718 yr by Tale

Sure this engine just makes alot of very same-ish planets on a vast scale and Tale is right its about seeing something unique and awesome not just seeing it first. But whats to say they can't use this engine to create the universe THEN put in unique and awesome things into the universe that the engine creates.

Sure this engine just makes alot of very same-ish planets on a vast scale and Tale is right its about seeing something unique and awesome not just seeing it first. But whats to say they can't use this engine to create the universe THEN put in unique and awesome things into the universe that the engine creates.

Somebody can do that. But are you still talking about replacing an artist with an equation and thus missing out on countless opportunities for more unique and interesting items, events, and vistas or are you talking about only using the equation to fill up white space?

Filling Space, They could use the engine to create the universe then fill in some hand written objects and events that take place in it that are more exciting.

Filling Space, They could use the engine to create the universe then fill in some hand written objects and events that take place in it that are more exciting.

That doesn't answer my question. Filling space says to me that the universe is created by the artist, then the unnecessary space is filled by the program. But the question there would be how are you defining unnecessary space? And why are resources being wasted on it?

 

It sounds like you're talking about having this engine create the universe and then the engine places unique items (this engine in particular is supposed to do it on the fly, so the artist can't place anything). Here you end up with the entire universe filled with blandspace, but only occasional randomly located pockets of art that may not be located in ideal places for their content.

Edited December 20, 200718 yr by Tale

But the question there would be how are you defining unnecessary space?

The gaps between planets or solar systems.

 

 

It sounds like you're talking about having this engine create the universe and then the engine places unique items (this engine in particular is supposed to do it on the fly, so the artist can't place anything). Here you end up with the entire universe filled with blandspace, but only occasional randomly located pockets of art that may not be located in ideal places for their content.

 

Yes thats what I am suggesting, however I am not suggesting that this SHOULD be used for the Aliens RPG, I'm only saying that it's a very impressive Engine that COULD be put to good use.

Well, whether it's auto generated, or is merely a poor hand made job, my preference is to get something done well once, rather than experiencing a random dungeon generator. Nevermind replayability, there are a lot more games out there than I'll ever have time to play.

 

Freespace is one of my favorite space trucking games, but it always seemed to miss something interesting going on while you visited a space station. You can't auto generate an interesting encounter, it just never happens, neither of course does it come with a name - profession - location dialouge box like the ones in Morrowind or Freespace.

Edited December 20, 200718 yr by Gorgon

I'm only saying that it's a very impressive Engine that COULD be put to good use.

 

I know what you're saying. I'm getting a little too argumentative in this thread and I apologize to everyone here. My thing is that I appreciate artistry in video games. I appreciate video games as arts, as human expression. I've played plenty of games that were made based on incredible technical merit, but lacked artistic merit. And it shows to me. It's why I don't like CryTek's games. This particular engine is incredibly technical, but threatens artistry.

fair enough. =)

I'm only saying that it's a very impressive Engine that COULD be put to good use.

 

I know what you're saying. I'm getting a little too argumentative in this thread and I apologize to everyone here. My thing is that I appreciate artistry in video games. I appreciate video games as arts, as human expression. I've played plenty of games that were made based on incredible technical merit, but lacked artistic merit. And it shows to me. It's why I don't like CryTek's games. This particular engine is incredibly technical, but threatens artistry.

 

I aspire to your sentiments. However, I do not believe that partial automation has to destroy artistry. Given the very real constraints of time and resource on the company, part automation could in fact free up artistic time, rather than forcing creative genies to slog through minutiae.