I think it's only fair to point out that under English law, Nick and I are only allowed to shoot Welshmen and natives.

I think a lot of people (Tarna) have been distracted away from what the argument was, and my point, which was that the cops shouldn't be soley to blaim in this case, as Hades was saying.

 

 

Then you are artificially limiting the argument to the point that it is irrelevant.

 

To you it might have been irrelevant, but it would help me see what you meant when you said a kid deserved death for breaking into your home.

I think it's only fair to point out that under English law, Nick and I are only allowed to shoot Welshmen and natives.

I think it's only fair to point out that until rather recently, even in Texas you could only shoot intruders if another person in your situation could not reasonably escape.

 

It's called Duty-To-Retreat, and while it's been removed from Texas, it still is in effect for nearly half the other states. The contrary is called Stand-Your-Ground and Sand's home state of Illinois has such a law.

 

Or does he live in Iowa? If so, he's plain fudgered.

Edited December 19, 200718 yr by Tale

I was under the impression that, in the whole of the US, if someone broke into your home you're legally allowed to shoot them.

 

Is this the essense of the 'stand-your-ground' thing?

I was under the impression that, in the whole of the US, if someone broke into your home you're legally allowed to shoot them.

 

Is this the essense of the 'stand-your-ground' thing?

That's the essence of the stand-your-ground, but it's not the whole of the US. If Wikipedia is accurate, it's 26 states, which is just over half. In contrast, some states have duty-to-retreat which requires you to either reasonably attempt to escape or announce intent to use deadly force. Again, up until the beginning of September, Texas had Duty-To-Retreat.

Edited December 19, 200718 yr by Tale

So 'stop or I shoot', followed by the guy trying to run off with your stuff before getting a new hole in his noggin' would be legal?

^It depends. At no time are you allowed to defend yourself/home by shooting sombody in the back or who is otherwise trying to get out of your house. Now if they charge you, its all good.

Edited December 19, 200718 yr by Gfted1

So 'stop or I shoot', followed by the guy trying to run off with your stuff before getting a new hole in his noggin' would be legal?

I'm not clear on the question.

If you're asking if announcing gives you the right to shoot indiscriminately, then no that would not be legal.

If you're asking if announcing gives the right to shoot to prevent robbery, then it can vary by state. As I said about Duty-To-Retreat, in some cases (maybe all), you have to be unable to retreat. So, shooting someone who is leaving is a big nono.

If you're asking if announcing a threat to scare off an intruder is legal on its own, well duh.

 

The point of Stand-Your-Ground laws is that it is believed a person who is under threat of potential harm should not have to worry about getting arrested should they decide to defend themselves. They may not be in the right state to validly judge whether retreat is an option. At least that's how it is in Texas, as stated by the man who proposed the change in law.

Edited December 19, 200718 yr by Tale

Yeah, the second one, him actually trying to run off with your stuff, rather than dropping it and running off.

Yeah, the second one, him actually trying to run off with your stuff, rather than dropping it and running off.

Even in spite of Stand-Your-Ground laws, I imagine most states do not give a civilian the right to kill to prevent robbery, but to prevent harm (even if only perceived) to yourself or other persons. I'm not sure how it works with armed security, such as at banks however.

Ahhhh, so the situation is better than I thought it was, and Hades' 'IF HE TOUCHES MY STUFF HE DIES' routine is just him being a redneck rather than the law.

Hey, more stupid cops!

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23144420

^Thats messed up.

Yes, yes it is. I hope they all get fired, especially that woman.

Stupid cops around the world! This one is from Wlash's (if memory serves) part of the world: http://www.gamepolitics.com/2008/05/26/swa...t-crazed-gunman

I don't see how that's stupid. The cops get a call telling them about someone with a gun, and they mistake a lifesized model of someone holding a gun for someone with a gun.

I don't see how that's stupid. The cops get a call telling them about someone with a gun, and they mistake a lifesized model of someone holding a gun for someone with a gun.

 

The stupidness is not how the mistake Lara as a perp with a gun, but arresting the guy for over it.

I don't see how that's stupid. The cops get a call telling them about someone with a gun, and they mistake a lifesized model of someone holding a gun for someone with a gun.

 

The stupidness is not how the mistake Lara as a perp with a gun, but arresting the guy for over it.

 

Gotta love stupid moderators.

Gotta love stupid moderators.

 

For his part, Williams was arrested, held for 13 hours, and charged with a firearms offense. The newspaper account doesn't explain whether the charge stemmed from Lara's fake gun or something else the police may have found in the home. The Lara Croft figure was confiscated as evidence.

For his part, Williams was arrested, held for 13 hours, and charged with a firearms offense. The newspaper account doesn't explain whether the charge stemmed from Lara's fake gun or something else the police may have found in the home. The Lara Croft figure was confiscated as evidence.

rawr.