Flaws in the codes

[shadowplay107]

well can you guys think of any?

 

1 for the jedi code is... There is no emotion; there is peace. But if their is no emotion then why care about what happens to people

another is There is no passion; there is serenity. if that is so then again why care about anything because you would need to be passionate about saving people to help them.

 

as for the sith... there is only passion. well things like mercy and love can stem from passion so why think it is only about being passionate about killing?

[Deadly_Nightshade]

I cannot think of where it says "there is no passion outside of killing," so I think you were following misnomer when you say that Sith care only about killing...

[shadowplay107]

I cannot think of where it says "there is no passion outside of killing," so I think you were following misnomer when you say that Sith care only about killing...

 

i can't think of where it says there is no passion inside of killing.

Edited November 18, 2007 by shadowplay107

[Deadly_Nightshade]

I cannot think of where it says "there is no passion outside of killing," so I think you were following misnomer when you say that Sith care only about killing...

 

i can;t think of where it says there is no passion inside of killing.

 

Oh, people can be impassioned about killing if they wish, but they can also have an infatuation with other things that do not involve death or violance. Thus, you cannot say that the statement "there is only passion" is false simply because some Sith seem to enjoy ending the lives of other creatures. Also, to further challenge your initial statement, you could be zealous about helping others and still be a Sith, just look at Darth Vader from Episode III.

[JediMasterAltena]

I cannot think of where it says "there is no passion outside of killing," so I think you were following misnomer when you say that Sith care only about killing...

 

i can;t think of where it says there is no passion inside of killing.

 

Oh, people can be impassioned about killing if they wish, but they can also have an infatuation with other things that do not involve death or violance. Thus, you cannot say that the statement "there is only passion" is false simply because some Sith seem to enjoy ending the lives of other creatures. Also, to further challenge your initial statement, you could be zealous about helping others and still be a Sith, just look at Darth Vader from Episode III.

 

not really darth vader was confused, he wasen't truely dark before he started murdering the jedi in the academy. and some might argue that the supposed death of padme. was a direct result of the emperor's manipulation, i'd say that Anakin was more a gray jedi in actions. both him, obi-wan, qui gon yin repetely broke the jedi code. when they felt like it. but like obi-wan when it came a question of light vs dark, obi-wan choose light, after all anakin did say if your not "with" me then your against me. implying the Obi-wan could possibly have joined the dark side if he wanted to, which of course he won't because. unlike anakin he don't belive in the sith way. anakin of course being manipulated by palaptine every step of the way, in order to get a strong apprentice. if anakin had not turned to the dark side then the emperor would have died when he exposed him self, to anakin.

[refuse]

well can you guys think of any?

 

1 for the jedi code is... There is no emotion; there is peace. But if their is no emotion then why care about what happens to people

another is There is no passion; there is serenity. if that is so then again why care about anything because you would need to be passionate about saving people to help them.

 

as for the sith... there is only passion. well things like mercy and love can stem from passion so why think it is only about being passionate about killing?

 

I think the point is that a Jedi acts upon a 'greater' understanding of duty towards the Force and everything around it (people etc). The problem with emotion is that if you focus on that, rather than reason and logic (which would be dictated by this greater understanding of the Light Side of the Force), you are easily swept away by it and can act irrationally or in contradiction of your duty. Without emotion, you don't have conflict, without conflict you have peace. Same with passion too! Ever heard of 'heat of the passion' crimes? Being a Jedi I suppose is overcoming the "human" (ie cultural and corporeal) nature and devoting oneself to the will of the Light Side of the Force, hence feeling and emotions are useless and only serve to anchor one to the qualities, problems and contradictions of 'humanity'. Think of them as idealised medieval Christians/crusaders, perhaps.

 

With regards to the Sith, my understanding is that they represent the opposite of the Jedi (or conceptually in any case). Mercy and love are emotions that you might assume are negative to a Sith, but to be able to manipulate them, you would have to understand them, right? And to understand them, you have to experience them. Love can push you do messed up things (thank you Hollywood) and I guess mercy is a 'downfall', but then again, I don't think the Sith would see themselves as inherently evil, similarly to how Hitler didn't see himself as being evil. Think of them as idealised Nietzschean pagans, who embrace humanity and nature for all its good and wrong, perhaps.

[shadowplay107]

thanks 4 the replies but i still think they have flaws because one of the jedi masters even said that the jedi code had its flaws and if the sith code is the opposite then there would be flaws in that too.

[Darth Mortis]

(It was the Jedi teachings, rather than the code itself, that some of the Jedi masters called into question)

 

The Jedi code is about selfishness. Emotions are, by and large, something that are triggered by individual-ie selfish-notions. The code is mean to imply that a Jedi should not be concentrating on their emotions, as they look inward, but considering events and situations from a impartial prospective. As Obi-Wan says 'Truth depends greatly on your point of view', and as was often said in another sci-fi series 'Truth is a three edged sword, your side, my side and the truth in between'.

 

Anakin became Vader simply because he was determined to save Padmes life, and this desire was his own and his own emotions. Because Anakin placed his own desire to save Padme so highly it prevented him from seeing Palpatine for what he truely was, and lead to him viewing everything in black and white-if he thought something was wrong/evil then it was. Had Anakin been able to follow the code, and see things from an impartial position he would have seen that killing Palpatine was overall in the best interests of everyone, even if it meant that Padme would die.

 

The Sith code is about looking inward, in effect about concentrating on what you want. The limits are that by doing this you fail to see the real truth of a situation, but can only see your own 'truth'. Another problem is that if you gratify yourself once, it takes more to gratify yourself next time around-a comparason to drugs would be apt, in that you will need greater and greater amounts to fully gratify yourself over time. The last problem is that passion is a short lived 'instant' emotion, and by allowing your passions to dictate your actions you fail to consider long term problems your actions might have. Palpatine followed his passion when he tried to kill Luke on the second Death Star, without considering that Vader might well move to protect his own son, as well as allowing his passion to destroy the Rebel Fleet to override any consideration that they might well be able to destroy the Deathstar. Short term passion, and a constant need for self gratification can (and in the sith seems to) lead to overconfidence and arregance, which sooner or later will land you in situations you can't handle and could have avoided.

 

If the Codes have flaws it is that they were/are taken to litrally. A Jedi who totally ignores their own emotions may only act when someone asks them to. A Sith who follows their own emotions to closely will become incapable of thinking in terms of other people. In K1 the Sith second in command of the academy on Koraban became a Sith to free slaves but, if playing LS, will admit that by concentrating on herself so much she was starting to forget why she wanted the power.

Edited November 18, 2007 by Darth Mortis

[Chill]

The Sith code is about looking inward, in effect about concentrating on what you want. The limits are that by doing this you fail to see the real truth of a situation, but can only see your own 'truth'.

 

Yes, I agree with your post. It's a shame, as it turns, that those that abide the Sith code see only through their own eyes, however, passion doesn't make someone a Sith, some Jedis have 'passion' (ie doesn't supress it enough obviously) and yet they still do the 'right' things, meaning, devotion of feelings, like in case with the Jedis, don't actually make a Jedi necessarily good, and passion doesn't make a Sith bad. It's a big flaw in the Jedi code, however, becose with more compassion and love, they could be better 'knights of the light', so to speak. I know that it would make them easier to fall, however, it would have made them a better persons. In turn, Sith could bump their heads into something and start thinking without loads of adrenalin, stop and look at the situation, think for some time and make rational decision, whatever that might be. That's basically their flaws, they are too big extremes, Jedi are cold and Sith are overly aggressive, don't you think?