Fan created KotOR games?

[Ice-Cold]

Hey, I was just wondering if there

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Modding is not against the End User License Agreement (EULA), but incorporating intellectual property, or actual elements, from other sources is prohibited. Porting changes to consoles is another illegal activity, due to Microsoft's draconian control of the X-box and 360, but that does not, thankfully, affect the PC version. However, what you are proposing, or asking others to manufacture for you, would, in my opinion as a modder, be hard to manufacture without the developer's toolset - something that is not likely to become available anytime soon. As I said to another poster: "While the modification might be possible, I, as a semi-experienced modder of several other games, doubt that you will be able to bring a team together until you can actually contribute to your own project. People come up with all sorts of outlandish ideas and post them hither and yon, but almost all of them never become anything more than a wild speculation - let alone a usable mod. You are proposing a full-conversion modification, something that would require a tremendous amount of effort, and it is nearly impossible without a dedicated staff of experienced modders - something you do not have, nor are you likely to gather one. I recommend that you learn about the Kot0R tools that are available and start your mod, as that is the best way to convince people that you are serious about the project."

 

You should try these sites if you want to learn how to mod:

http://www.lucasforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=324

http://www.starwarsknights.com/tools.php

http://kotortool.starwarsknights.com/

[Swxpert]

while i have seen some insanely awsome fanmade accomplisments "Knights of the force" i havn't seen anything for Kotr unless you count the restoration project

[Ice-Cold]

Thanks for the replies!

 

Modding is not against the End User License Agreement (EULA), but incorporating intellectual property, or actual elements, from other sources is prohibited. Porting changes to consoles is another illegal activity, due to Microsoft's draconian control of the X-box and 360, but that does not, thankfully, affect the PC version. However, what you are proposing, or asking others to manufacture for you, would, in my opinion as a modder, be hard to manufacture without the developer's toolset - something that is not likely to become available anytime soon. As I said to another poster: "While the modification might be possible, I, as a semi-experienced modder of several other games, doubt that you will be able to bring a team together until you can actually contribute to your own project. People come up with all sorts of outlandish ideas and post them hither and yon, but almost all of them never become anything more than a wild speculation - let alone a usable mod. You are proposing a full-conversion modification, something that would require a tremendous amount of effort, and it is nearly impossible without a dedicated staff of experienced modders - something you do not have, nor are you likely to gather one. I recommend that you learn about the Kot0R tools that are available and start your mod, as that is the best way to convince people that you are serious about the project."

I never actually asked someone to create a game for me, I just gave out some ideas I thought would be cool to have while asking if there

[Deadly_Nightshade]

hen I played Star Wars Galaxies, modding in general was said to be against the EULA... even though it would be only for changing skins or whatnot, and would only affect your view and no one else

[Ice-Cold]

hen I played Star Wars Galaxies, modding in general was said to be against the EULA... even though it would be only for changing skins or whatnot, and would only affect your view and no one else

Edited November 16, 2007 by Ice-Cold

[Tale]

hen I played Star Wars Galaxies, modding in general was said to be against the EULA... even though it would be only for changing skins or whatnot, and would only affect your view and no one else

[Deadly_Nightshade]

hen I played Star Wars Galaxies, modding in general was said to be against the EULA... even though it would be only for changing skins or whatnot, and would only affect your view and no one else

[refuse]

Random question:

 

Is it possible to import material (maps, models etc...) from KoTOR into TSL? It would really make for some interesting Korriban/Tatooine mods to say the least!

Edited November 17, 2007 by refuse

[Ice-Cold]

Random question:

 

Is it possible to import material (maps, models etc...) from KoTOR into TSL? It would really make for some interesting Korriban/Tatooine mods to say the least!

 

I just asked that question, probably not in the same words, but the question is still the same.

 

hen I played Star Wars Galaxies, modding in general was said to be against the EULA... even though it would be only for changing skins or whatnot, and would only affect your view and no one else

Edited November 19, 2007 by Ice-Cold

[refuse]

No, I now understand it is illegal, I also got a similar response on holowan. My intentions would be to work on porting material from one game to the other, not to create a mod for distribution, but for personal pleasure and experience. I'm interesting in getting into modding and would like to know what limitations exist. I gather that creating entirely new worlds is proving to be difficult and I'm not so convinced by most reskin jobs. My question, legalities aside, was more about whether it is feasible to port modules and models from one game to another with the currently availble modding software. I own both games, so what I do to my copies shouldn't really be illlegal if I'm not making available to anyone else. It's highly unlikely game developers care about what users do, so long as they are not infringing their copyrights, trademarks or gaining any wealth by exploiting their labour (much appreciated btw) and isn't my intention in any case. I suppose the experience gained from porting might also, in the grander scheme of things, provide a better understanding of the mechanincs of the game engine and thus help in the development of legal mod utlities. who knows? If modders can start producing entirely new worlds and content/story mods, it can only mean the game will be more successful for everyone involved in it, right? Apologies if I'm tiring.

Edited November 19, 2007 by refuse

[Deadly_Nightshade]

See? no mods whatsoever. Modding the game and porting from another game are both illegal, so the former is only the same as the latter... just that the latter is the hardest? Hehe, sounds as if someone as tried to port and failed, and decided to call it quits and used the "illegal" card.

 

Porting is an issue because 20th Century Fox, the company that owns the Star Wars franchise, will prosecute modders who use Star Wars related materials in non-Star Wars games - Battlefield 1942 for example. Also, modifying the original game may not constitute a breach of the End User License Agreement (EULA), for you are not actually "reverse engineering," "deriving source code," nor are you making anything that would not need the original program to run properly. To quote from a posting on the official Bioware Forum regarding modifications: "Bioware/LucasArts cannot condone the modding of any game that does not have a specific toolset designed for that purpose. This is not the forum to discuss mods. Search the Internet to find what you're looking for." There, they do not say that you cannot modify the file, nor does it say you can, the posting simply states that LucasArts cannot condone modifications that are not made with an official toolset. Also, the EULA says nothing about adding your own material to the game, this is what most modifications do, including those that change the program.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

My question, legalities aside, was more about whether it is feasible to port modules and models from one game to another with the currently availble modding software.

 

Yes, but porting items is illegal and inadvisable.

[refuse]

Thanks for the clarifications Deadly_Nightshade!

[Ice-Cold]

See? no mods whatsoever. Modding the game and porting from another game are both illegal, so the former is only the same as the latter... just that the latter is the hardest? Hehe, sounds as if someone as tried to port and failed, and decided to call it quits and used the "illegal" card.

 

Porting is an issue because 20th Century Fox, the company that owns the Star Wars franchise, will prosecute modders who use Star Wars related materials in non-Star Wars games - Battlefield 1942 for example. Also, modifying the original game may not constitute a breach of the End User License Agreement (EULA), for you are not actually "reverse engineering," "deriving source code," nor are you making anything that would not need the original program to run properly. To quote from a posting on the official Bioware Forum regarding modifications: "Bioware/LucasArts cannot condone the modding of any game that does not have a specific toolset designed for that purpose. This is not the forum to discuss mods. Search the Internet to find what you're looking for." There, they do not say that you cannot modify the file, nor does it say you can, the posting simply states that LucasArts cannot condone modifications that are not made with an official toolset. Also, the EULA says nothing about adding your own material to the game, this is what most modifications do, including those that change the program.

 

But it says in the EULA that you can't modify. Changing and adding are types of modifications.

Edited November 19, 2007 by Ice-Cold

[Ice-Cold]

Could no longer edit above post, so yeah, continued below.

 

Where is it written that porting is illegal? (Due to issues with 20th century fox).. besides, legal or not, people can and probably would still do it same as how all 3 Halo's have been ported to the PC, or how JK content have been ported to other JK and SW programs many many times before... Jedi Knights have the same EULA that KotOR does and still uses the "20th Century Fox Porting issue" whatevers as any other Star Wars title does, yet modding that game series is pretty open ended.

 

"Bioware/LucasArts cannot condone the modding of any game that does not have a specific toolset designed for that purpose. This is not the forum to discuss mods. Search the Internet to find what you're looking for."

 

1. The post was from another member, not a developer or moderator.

2. "Bioware/LucasArts cannot condone the modding of any game that does not have a specific toolset" as been used on various other websites, including LucasForum in the same year adding "All mods will be prosecuted vigorously to the full extent of the law. Please read your EULA." and again.. neither posters are employees to BW/LA so none of that can really be used in an argument.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Jedi Knights have the same EULA that KotOR does and still uses the "20th Century Fox Porting issue" whatevers as any other Star Wars title does, yet modding that game series is pretty open ended.

 

The following amendment shipped as part of the Jedi Knight I/II and Jedi Academy EULA, and so that is why LucasArts supports JKI/II and JA modding and not Kot0R I/II modding. LucasArts has also said that textures and other materials from the JK series can be ported to other JK games, including JA, but this only applies to those particular games. As for your comment about Halo, you can base new textures on an existing item -as long as you do not plan to sell it, for then there would more legal issues-, but you cannot directly take materials from one game and port them to another. For example, you might find Master Chief armor for Oblivion, but the are not the same files that ship with Halo I, II, or III.

 

LucasArts Modding Policy

(1) New Levels may work only if used in combination with the retail version of the Game, and may not work with any demo or Original Equipment Manufacturer (generally known as "OEM") versions of the Game. New Levels may not be designed to be used as a stand-alone product.

(2) New Levels may not modify any COM, EXE, DLL or other executable files.

(3) New Levels must not contain any illegal, scandalous, illicit, defamatory, libelous, or objectionable material (as may be determined by LucasArts in its sole discretion), or any material that infringes any trademarks, copyrights, protected works, publicity, proprietary, or other rights of any third party or of LucasArts.

(4) New Levels may not include any LucasArts sound effects or music files or portions thereof.

(5) New Levels must identify in every description file, on-line description, read-me, and in comments in the New Level code (if new code is added): (a) the name, address, and e-mail address of the level's creators, and (b) the following disclaimer: "THIS ELEMENT IS NOT MADE, DISTRIBUTED, OR SUPPORTED BY LUCASARTS, A DIVISION OF LUCASFILM ENTERTAINMENT COMPANY LTD. ELEMENT TM &

Edited November 19, 2007 by Deadly_Nightshade

[refuse]

If Lucas against modding for KoTOR/TSL, how come they have a load of user-created add-ons for the game series on starwarsknights.com etc or allow filefront to host all them mods?

 

I understand the legal argument against mods, by Fox and Lucas, however I feel it is only really applicable (in a realistic sense) when one goes 'public' with a mod (ie setting up a website and intending to distribute the mod, whether for free or for a price). I suppose porting is more a taboo issue as it means 'exploiting' copywritten material on the one hand and Lucas' particular fan-creations policies on the other...

[Ice-Cold]

I understand the legal argument against mods, by Fox and Lucas, however I feel it is only really applicable (in a realistic sense) when one goes 'public' with a mod (ie setting up a website and intending to distribute the mod, whether for free or for a price). I suppose porting is more a taboo issue as it means 'exploiting' copywritten material on the one hand and Lucas' particular fan-creations policies on the other...

 

I think the post before yours was about what you just said.. with the "setting up a website and intending to distribute the mod (etc)" or whatever they did (I didnt read it). I don't see anything wrong with porting, modding, or doing anything with a game as long as you're not stupid enough to try make money out of it. Besides, how can anyone find out you're using this "illegal" stuff? Does your computer randomly get checked by developers to see if you're editing their software? ...well these days I'm not too sure, but I'll say no. I was trying to make a point in this post but somehow my train of thought.. yeah.

 

Also, I want to know if Second Life is illegal in anyway (due to the message by Fox in a previous post). Second Life allows you to create anything... you can upload images and sounds directly from any game, create items out of it (I myself have a Darth Revan outfit ) and sell it for in-game cash.. which can be exchanged for real money. Or is that just different altogether and we're back at the "Its different for MMOs" thing? but it's still making profit out of someone elses work.

Edited November 21, 2007 by Ice-Cold

[refuse]

No, that was my point, the fact is, unless you publicise yourself your breach of the EULA, they don't know about and if they don't know about it, it never happened. Only put in a more subtle way. I think so far as you actually pay for something, you're allowed to do whatever the heck you want with it.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Also, I want to know if Second Life is illegal in anyway (due to the message by Fox in a previous post). Second Life allows you to create anything... you can upload images and sounds directly from any game, create items out of it (I myself have a Darth Revan outfit ) and sell it for in-game cash.. which can be exchanged for real money. Or is that just different altogether and we're back at the "Its different for MMOs" thing? but it's still making profit out of someone elses work.

 

That is a touchy issue, but I believe that you should read the "Digital Millennium Copyright Act" page on the Secound Life Website before continuing to make Kot0R based items.

 

Linden Lab will respond to allegations of copyright violations in accordance with the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). The DMCA provides a process for a copyright owner to give notification to an online service provider concerning alleged copyright infringement. When a valid DMCA notification is received, the service provider responds under this process by taking down the offending content. On taking down content under the DMCA, we will take reasonable steps to contact the owner of the removed content so that a counter-notification may be filed. On receiving a valid counter-notification, we generally restore the content in question, unless we receive notice from the notification provider that a legal action has been filed seeking a court order to restrain the alleged infringer from engaging in the infringing activity.

 

Please note that these notifications and counter-notifications are real-world legal notices provided outside of the Second Life environment. Linden Lab may provide copies of such notices to the participants in the dispute or third parties, at our discretion and as required by law - the privacy policy for Second Life does not protect information provided in these notices.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

I think so far as you actually pay for something, you're allowed to do whatever the heck you want with it.

 

That is not correct, as the letter from Fox clearly shows...