Listening to your community

[Blarghagh]

Oh man, I have suddenly decided that a game design company should not listen to their community. I mean, this is a fairly smart community so Obsidian might actually find some good feedback, but most game companies are not so lucky. Blizzard has neutered or deleted all of the interesting elements they added to their upcoming game StarCraft II because "they wanted to listen to their community".

 

They don't seem to realize however that their community consists out of Battle.net and BlizzForums. They're full of whiners and idiots, and hardcore StarCraft players who will hate the game if it's not the exact same as it's predecessor. If I see one more signature claiming "The [insert unit] should be removed! Add this to your signature if you agree!" I'm going to kill someone. They really need to get back to making the game they want to make.

[Morgoth]

What exactly do you mean with "deleted all interesting elements of Starcraft2"? Seems like they didn't want to reinvent the wheel, but stay true to the Original core design, which I think is fine. In addition, the Solo campaign seems to be more interesting now with the mission choices and RPG like character interaction.

Edited August 15, 2007 by Morgoth

[Tale]

It seems as if the more popular a game is, the greater power the vocal minority is capable of asserting. Their collective power seems to build on a scale that favors a larger number of overall people. Especially since as they grow in number, they drown out the others, and the others stop trying.

 

On these forums the this isn't as apparent and the members of the vocal minority are relatively muted because there's not enough people here to have enough of a vocal minority for them to band together and reinforce each other.

Edited August 15, 2007 by Tale

[thepixiesrock]

Yeah, the few people here that we wouldn't want Obsidian to listen to like Hades and Volo are usually arguing with eachother. Lets hope they don't wise up and band together. Things might get really annoying around here.

[Blarghagh]

What exactly do you mean with "deleted all interesting elements of Starcraft2"? Seems like they didn't want to reinvent the wheel, but stay true to the Original core design, which I think is fine. In addition, the Solo campaign seems to be more interesting now with the mission choices and RPG like character interaction.

 

Game mechanics have already been changed, and units have been taken out and replaced with apparently "classic" StarCraft units because everyone was bitching to bring them back. Any unit that gets added is decreed "unbalanced" and eventually nerfed into infinity, and they're not even at beta testing. For example, the Mothership unit that was shown in the original gameplay demo was a unit that could change the entire game; now it's been altered and become just like any other air unit, albeit oversized. Because the Reaver and the Collusus shared one possibility in combat, the "fans" cried for the removal of the out-of-date Reaver, even though both units have completely different purposes (the only similarity is that they can both be used to effectively counter infantry, but it's not eithers purpose).

[Tale]

Is there a place with a list of these changes?

[Xard]

What can I say... NEVER listen your fans.

 

Never.

[Tale]

They really need to get back to making the game they want to make.

 

Here's a statement I'd really like to take on. How do you know "the game they want to make" is not a Starcraft sequal that appeals heavily to the long term and hardcore fans?

 

The phrase "game they want to make" is a very personal term. Just because they put some ideas out there they think sound neat doesn't mean they're essential elements to it being what they want to make. I think making changes based on community feedback is a greater indicator of what they want to make than simply what they have already made. They want to make a game for the community members they are listening to. Issues of vocal minority included because that's a well known factor all over the internet.

 

Maybe the problem is that they're not quite making a game you want them to make. Perhaps you're wanting a Starcraft sequel that is artistically driven in its design.

Edited August 15, 2007 by Tale

[Blarghagh]

Their own claim is that "they want to make a game that brings something new to the table but is still true to the spirit of starcraft". However, all of the genuinely "new" stuff is being scourged.

 

I don't know about a list of changes, but I suppose many can be found at sclegacy.com.

 

Also, I wouldn't make quite the big deal of it if it was about the game *I* wanted them to make. After all, I thought the Soul Hunter was a crap unit, and it was taken out. It was, however, taken out because the fans hated it; not because they wanted to take it out. They were obviously very enthusiastic about the unit. That's a pretty stupid reason to get rid of something you like.

Edited August 15, 2007 by TrueNeutral

[Schazzwozzer]

Games are overwhelmingly commercial products that fulfill real consumer needs/wants. A developer ignores player input at his or her own peril.

 

And who says the Reavers being cut out was due to public pressure? I'd be really surprised if a Blizzard employee actually confirmed this. All I saw was this bit of news drop at Blizzcon, and it's hardly surprising. Starcraft has always been a very tightly designed RTS, and it looks like Blizzard wants to cull redundancy whenever possible. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

[GreasyDogMeat]

While I haven't been following SC II, I would not be surprised if TrueNeutral is right. I remember Blizzard was planning on introducing a brand new Terran Earth faction to the Brood War expansion, but whiny idiot fan boys didn't like the idea so they stuck with standard Terran units.

 

A brand new Terran force made absolute perfect sense, considering the Terrans in the first StarCraft were colonists seperated from Earth for hundreds of years and would have developed their own seperate technology.

[Gromnir]

What can I say... NEVER listen your fans.

 

Never.

 

 

disagree.

 

always listen to fans... just don't let what you learn from fans prevent you from doing what you thinks would make game better.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[steelfiredragon]

What can I say... NEVER listen your fans.

 

Never.

 

 

disagree.

 

always listen to fans... just don't let what you learn from fans prevent you from doing what you thinks would make game better.

 

HA! Good Fun!

id have to agree with gromnir here

 

have a nice day!

 

 

but also, but some fans never know what they really want, and that should be evident in their posts, but still listen to them, but you never have to do what they say.

Edited August 15, 2007 by steelfiredragon

[Sand]

Yeah, the few people here that we wouldn't want Obsidian to listen to like Hades and Volo are usually arguing with eachother. Lets hope they don't wise up and band together. Things might get really annoying around here.

 

Right or wrong, arguing is always fun so in a way we have already banded together. BWAAAHAAAAAHAAAAAAAA!

[Walsingham]

I think Trueneutral's got a point up to a point.

 

 

Your fans are going to pick up on maybe some key features, but surely the whole point about YOU being the creative geniuses is that you are more imaginative and perceptive than they are. You'll be aware or at least compelled by subtexts they will miss completely because they are gameplaying apes.

 

An example of this from another genre is films. Specifically the Matrix. They made the sequels from a fanboy distilled essence of the original that was to the first film what bovril is to steak.

[Deraldin]

Just read this thread and what's this I hear about them taking out my reavers? They better not have taken them out because of people bitching about them. *shakes fist at the masses*

 

No more reaver drops on the enemy supply lines. :sad: