Why is the NWN2 modding scene so.... meh?

[Tale]

Yeah, Bloodlines also has terrific voicework. We are getting rather spoiled.

 

I remember a comment from the Making Of CD that came with Lunar for the PS1. The voice actor for Ghaleon said that to be a good villain you need to annunciate and make it sound like you're in love with the sound of your own voice. I think that's what was so good about David Warner and why the British make such good villains. Look at Alan Rickman, too! Someone should peg him for some villain voicework.

Edited August 23, 2007 by Tale

[Monte Carlo]

I think that's what was so good about David Warner and why the British make such good villains.

 

No, we make good villains because we ruled the world for several hundred years with a rod of iron. Mwuhaahahahaaaa!!! (etc, in a very deep resonant British accent)

 

I think Ray Winstone (i.e. King Arthur & Sexy Beast) who has a gravelly London accent can do a good villain. Americans seem to prefer upper-class British villains, though.

 

I digress. Please, back on topic. Why are NWN2 modules, so far, so meh?

 

Cheers

MC

[Foamhead]

I think that's what was so good about David Warner and why the British make such good villains.

 

No, we make good villains because we ruled the world for several hundred years with a rod of iron. Mwuhaahahahaaaa!!! (etc, in a very deep resonant British accent)

 

I think Ray Winstone (i.e. King Arthur & Sexy Beast) who has a gravelly London accent can do a good villain. Americans seem to prefer upper-class British villains, though.

 

I digress. Please, back on topic. Why are NWN2 modules, so far, so meh?

 

Cheers

MC

 

 

Same answer, because Obsidian wanted to make a "meh" game. I've played much worse, but I know they are capable of much better.

[Monte Carlo]

Thanks, Foamhead, you don't like the game. It doesn't really help me though does it, as I actually do.

 

I wasn't aware that the NWN2 toolset was that different from the NWN version, though.

[Blarghagh]

One of the best things about BGII is that they had David Warner doing Irenicus. That was some of the best voicework I've yet to see.

 

Whenever I start that game I generally speak along with all his dialogue, that's how memorable it is.

[Starwars]

I wasn't aware that the NWN2 toolset was that different from the NWN version, though.

 

I haven't looked at it, but from what many people who are currently building modules are saying, it really doesn't seem to be that awful or even hard compared to the first toolset. It seems to take a longer time (due to more possibilities in area building etc) though. I've seen plenty of people post on various forums that they've had no enormous troubles learning the toolset, despite them not having programming backgrounds etc.

That said, I'm sure lots of improvements could be made and will be made.

 

But I have no idea really, I'm not a builder.

[Sand]

Yeah, Bloodlines also has terrific voicework. We are getting rather spoiled.

 

I remember a comment from the Making Of CD that came with Lunar for the PS1. The voice actor for Ghaleon said that to be a good villain you need to annunciate and make it sound like you're in love with the sound of your own voice. I think that's what was so good about David Warner and why the British make such good villains. Look at Alan Rickman, too! Someone should peg him for some villain voicework.

 

Ghaleon wasn't evil. He was just constipated. Being constipated for 20 years can make you do strange things.

[Tale]

Didn't say he was evil, just that he was a villain.

[Ellester]

Because the game itself is "meh". Boring story, boring characters, no freedom, the list is endless. Why no one is capable of making a D&D game with the scope of Baldurs Gate anymore is beyond me. Since roughly seven people on the face of the planet actually use the editor beyond screwing around I don't even understand why Obsidian or Bioware wasted their time splitting resources.

Well considering Obsidian has many BIS employees, and they did do the IWD series of games, it's not surprising that the game is more akin to a IWD game than to a BG game. The IWD's were pretty linear, not a lot of freedom. IWD2 forced you to have max hit points so the devs could balance the game. And in NWN2 they forced you to have companions were they could account for and balance the game.

 

I'm not at all surprised NWN2 turned out the way it did. My guess would be Dragon Age has a chance of being like a BG game, but I never expected NWN2 to be like a BG game.

 

 

ok, now back to the lack of mods.

[MLMarkland]

It takes time to make a great mod. Counterstrike wasn't just "cranked out overnight". Neither was Darkness Over Daggerford or Wyvern Crown of Cormyr. Furthermore, the NWN2 Toolset is much more suited to making a "great mod" than the NWN1 Toolset ever was, that's not holding anyone back.

Edited August 23, 2007 by MLMarkland

[Big Bottom]

I think the fact that as mods get more advanced the amount of work increases exponentially is a factor with NWN2 and other games. Compare the number of mods for HL2 compared to HL...there really aren't a huge number of high profile ones, I can think of only 3 that I would want to spend time with (PVK2, Dystopia, FF). I guess you could argue that Valve seems to be developing the mods themselves with DoD, CS and TF2 but it still isn't what I envisioned would happen when Source was released.

[J.E. Sawyer]

Some of the Rogue Dao folks were at Obsidian this week and I got a chance to sit in on the Purgatorio demo. They've really done a terrific job. And while it should be stated that they have accomplished this with a core team of 20+ people, you really can do a lot with the engine and toolset.

[Oerwinde]

Some of the Rogue Dao folks were at Obsidian this week and I got a chance to sit in on the Purgatorio demo. They've really done a terrific job. And while it should be stated that they have accomplished this with a core team of 20+ people, you really can do a lot with the engine and toolset.

 

Hopefully when that and Mask of the Betrayer are released it will jump start the community.

Edited September 16, 2007 by Oerwinde

[MLMarkland]

Some of the Rogue Dao folks were at Obsidian this week and I got a chance to sit in on the Purgatorio demo. They've really done a terrific job. And while it should be stated that they have accomplished this with a core team of 20+ people, you really can do a lot with the engine and toolset.

 

Thanks for the kind words Mr. Sawyer. This is dead-on accurate. We've had a big team to be sure, but we're also making a rather enormous game module. If someone is content to make shorter things with a little more reasonable amount of CC, the NWN2 engine is hands down the greatest thing ever made for rpg modding. It's just absolutely perfect for making DnD adventures.

 

And, on the far other end of the spectrum, if someone wanted to spend 4 years making a post-apocalyptic turn based total conversion, they could do it with NWN2. The GUI mod-ability and nwscript really make that possible (with possibly some necessary tweaks to dynamic listboxes and the like from OEI and a few compromises on game mechanics by the modders).

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

Why bother using the NWN2 engine? I mean it's not as easy to grasp as the NWN's engine for the n00bs, so no dice there, and its not as stable either. It may hit the nice kinda middle ground of seasoned modder, which is fine, more quality, fewer quantity.

 

But its engine, its the kind of thing that gives one nightmares, crawling along like some kinda crippled crack badger... And I suppose the toolset is more akin to the crack badgers harlot of a wife who whores herself for coin... She keeps winding up missing, looses a few teeth, but she occasionally brings home the goods.

 

That said NWN2 is a fine game! But that has more to do with the designers and artists than the codebase, but I don't blame obsidian for that, they've tried to clean up the old crack badger best they could for the job interview. I blame Bioware.

[MLMarkland]

Why bother using the NWN2 engine? I mean it's not as easy to grasp as the NWN's engine for the n00bs, so no dice there, and its not as stable either. It may hit the nice kinda middle ground of seasoned modder, which is fine, more quality, fewer quantity.

 

But its engine, its the kind of thing that gives one nightmares, crawling along like some kinda crippled crack badger... And I suppose the toolset is more akin to the crack badgers harlot of a wife who whores herself for coin... She keeps winding up missing, looses a few teeth, but she occasionally brings home the goods.

 

That said NWN2 is a fine game! But that has more to do with the designers and artists than the codebase, but I don't blame obsidian for that, they've tried to clean up the old crack badger best they could for the job interview. I blame Bioware.

 

The reason to use the NWN2 engine is that the quality alternatives [source, UE, etc.] are either more challenging to work with or not particularly well suited to creating an RPG module on a hobbyist basis or a combination of both factors.

 

I disagree vehemently that the NWN1/Aurora engine is easier to use than the NWN2/Electron engine. There are aspects of NWN2 that are more challenging, such as the creation of terrain. On the other hand, cutscenes and quest scripting are much easier for a beginner using NWN2 given that the conversation editor has built in support for cinematic cutscenes and a large library of global action and check scripts.

 

Over time people will recognize the power and value of NWN2, even if folks were slow to appreciate it for what it is: the finest rpg mod tool ever created.

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

The reason to use the NWN2 engine is that the quality alternatives [source, UE, etc.] are either more challenging to work with or not particularly well suited to creating an RPG module on a hobbyist basis or a combination of both factors.

 

I wouldn't argue with anything you're saying.

 

I disagree vehemently that the NWN1/Aurora engine is easier to use than the NWN2/Electron engine. There are aspects of NWN2 that are more challenging, such as the creation of terrain. On the other hand, cutscenes and quest scripting are much easier for a beginner using NWN2 given that the conversation editor has built in support for cinematic cutscenes and a large library of global action and check scripts.

 

Oh it's all gravy to me man, I was under the impression that NWN2 is Aurora, but with the Electron render engine... Most of the engines issues are legacy.

 

I wouldn't say that EITHER are hard, but if you was a total n00b, you really can get something going quicker in the NWN's engine, that doesn't mean it is inherantly better, or easier to use for feature X.

 

Over time people will recognize the power and value of NWN2, even if folks were slow to appreciate it for what it is: the finest rpg mod tool ever created.

 

Aye, a mod tool, which ironically appears to be one of the many reasons the damn game runs like a crack badger, and toolset the crack badgers wife, is KNOWN for currupting mod files.

 

Now, it isn't a bad mod tool, its very good, but I'd never use it for a project...

[Sand]

Then what would you use for a NWN2 mod?

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

Then what would you use for a NWN2 mod?

 

I wouldn't mod NWN2... It'd be a waste of bloody time!

[Sand]

Then what would you use for a NWN2 mod?

 

I wouldn't mod NWN2... It'd be a waste of bloody time!

So are playing games and typing messages on forums. What's your point?

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

I wouldn't agree.

 

I just don't think very highly of modding, unless you're actually working on the engine also...

Edited September 19, 2007 by @\NightandtheShape/@

[Tale]

I wouldn't agree.

 

I just don't think very highly of modding, unless you're actually working on the engine also...

You are the shallowest dev I've ever seen type.

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

I wouldn't agree.

 

I just don't think very highly of modding, unless you're actually working on the engine also...

You are the shallowest dev I've ever seen type.

 

Nah, I like MOD's, I play MOD's, I don't like making MOD's, because there is NO ACTUAL CODE!

[Tale]

I wouldn't agree.

 

I just don't think very highly of modding, unless you're actually working on the engine also...

You are the shallowest dev I've ever seen type.

 

Nah, I like MOD's, I play MOD's, I don't like making MOD's, because there is NO ACTUAL CODE!

There's a difference between not liking to make MODs and not thinking highly of modding. One is an opinion of your interest in being involved, one is an opinion of the activity in general.

Edited September 19, 2007 by Tale

[Sand]

Eh? Then what is all the scripts using?