Scooter Libby commuted

[Pop]

Can't say I'm surprised. The rule of law was never important to the Bush presidency.

 

Anybody got a link about that born-again christian in Texas that Bush executed while he was governor? That's a nice contrast. I hope the press runs with that one. But they won't because, you know, Paris Hilton just got out of jail.

Edited July 2, 2007 by Pop

[WITHTEETH]

Bush said in a statement. "But I have concluded that the prison sentence given to Mr. Libby is excessive. Therefore, I am commuting(lessen penalty) the portion of Mr. Libby's sentence that required him to spend thirty months in prison."

 

250,000 fine and 2 years probation is what Libby gets now.

 

I guess I'm not surprised either, although i wish i was, because that would mean that the country wouldn't make as many stupid actions. President Bush is not the brightest crayon in the box, i bet his IQ is something like 84. His highest grade in college was something like an 80% in college i believe, but his average was what, a C- right? Born into power.

 

"As Independence Day nears, we are reminded that one of the principles our forefathers fought for was equal justice under the law. This commutation completely tramples on that principle," Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., said through a spokesman.

 

Libby's supporters celebrated.

 

"That's fantastic. It's a great relief," said former Ambassador Richard Carlson, who helped raise millions for Libby's defense fund. "Scooter Libby did not deserve to go to prison and I'm glad the president had the courage to do this."

What the heck kind of person is a libby supporter? Libby is a douche bag, and so are his supporters.

The white house and its staff has become a sideshow, every week they come out with another crazy act that shocks us again and again.

I would not call our president courageous, i see this action as a sign of impudence. With freedom comes responsibility, and like every other citizen of the United States even its officials get the same treatment from the courts, at least in theory, and our presidents are disrespecting our system and over reaching their power. Bill Clinton did this too right before he got out of office too, and i think it was equally disrespectful. I think it goes against our constitution and checks and balances.

[Walsingham]

I think it is disgraceful. What possible cause is there to spare him a sentence he blatantly deserves? I've never had much respect for the Bush administration, but this is ridiculous. I mean, even doing it now, rather than doing a Clinton is idiocy.

 

Mind you, thinking it over I guess Bush's administration is kind of like the chancellery bunker, May 5th. Anyone who has stuck it out this far isn't going to quit now for anything.

[Guard Dog]

During his 7 years in office Geroge W Bush has issues 0 pardon and comuted the prison penalty from 1 perjury conviction

 

During his 8 years in office, Bill Clinton issued free and clear pardons to the following people:

 

ALLEN, Verla Jean: False statements to agency of United States

ALTIERE, Nicholas M: Importation of cocaine

ALTSCHUL, Bernice Ruth : Conspiracy to commit money laundering

ANDERSON, Joe, Jr.: Income tax evasion

ANDERSON, William Sterling Conspiracy to defraud a federally insured financial institution, false statements to a federally insured financial institution, wire fraud

AZIZKHANI, Mansour T. Conspiracy and making false statements in bank loan applications

BABIN, Cleveland Victor, Jr. Conspiracy to commit offense against the United States by utilizing the U.S. mail in furtherance of a scheme to defraud

BAGLEY, Chris Harmon Conspiracy to possess with intent to distribute cocaine

BANE, Scott Lynn Unlawful distribution of marijuana

BARBER, Thomas Issuing worthless checks

BARGON, Peggy Ann Violation of the Lacey Act, violation of the Bald Eagle Protection Act

BHATKA, Tansukhlal Income tax evasion

BLAMPIED, David Roscoe Conspiracy to distribute cocaine

BORDERS, William Arthur, Jr. Conspiracy to corruptly solicit and accept money in return for influencing the official acts of a federal district court judge (Alcee L. Hastings), and to defraud the United States in connection with the performance of lawful government functions; corruptly influencing, obstructing, impeding and endeavoring to influence, obstruct and impede the due administration of justice, and aiding and abetting therein; traveling interstate with intent to commit bribery

BOREL, Arthur David Odometer rollback

BOREL, Douglas Charles Odometer rollback

BRABHAM, George Thomas Making a false statement or report to a federally insured bank

BRASWELL, Almon Glenn Conspiracy to defraud government with respect to claims; perjury

BROWDER, Leonard Illegal dispensing of controlled substance and Medicaid fraud

BROWN, David Steven Securities fraud and mail fraud

BURLESON, Delores Caroylene, Possession of marijuana

BUSTAMANTE, John H. Wire fraud

CAMPBELL, Mary Louise Aiding and abetting the unauthorized use and transfer of food stamps

CANDELARIA, Eloida False information in registering to vote

CAPILI, Dennis Sobrevinas Filing false statements in alien registration

CHAMBERS, Donna Denise Conspiracy to possess with intent to distribute and to distribute cocaine, possession with intent to distribute cocaine, use of a telephone to facilitate cocaine conspiracy

CHAPMAN, Douglas Eugene Bank fraud

CHAPMAN, Ronald Keith Bank fraud

CHAVEZ, Francisco Larios Aiding and abetting illegal entry of aliens

COOPER, David Marc: Conspiracy to defraud the government

COX, Ernest Harley, Jr. Conspiracy to defraud a federally insured savings and loan, misapplication of bank funds, false statements

CROSS, John F., Jr. Embezzlement by a bank employee

CUNNINGHAM, Rickey Lee Possession with intent to distribute marijuana

DE LABIO, Richard Anthony Mail fraud, aiding and abetting

DOWNE, Edward Reynolds Conspiracy to commit wire fraud and tax evasion; securities fraud

DUDLEY, Marvin Dean False statements

DUNCAN, Larry Lee Altering an automobile odometer

FAIN, Robert Clinton Aiding and assisting in the preparation of a false corporate tax return

FERNANDEZ, Marcos Arcenio Conspiracy to possess with intent to distribute marijuana

FERROUILLET, Alvarez Interstate transport of stolen property, money laundering, false statements

FUGAZY, William Denis Harrison, New York Perjury in a bankruptcy proceeding

GEORGE, Lloyd Reid Mail fraud

GOLDSTEIN, Louis Possession of goods stolen from interstate shipment

GORDON, Rubye Lee Forgery of U.S. Treasury checks

HAMNER, Robert Ivey Conspiracy to distribute marijuana, possession of marijuana with intent to distribute

HANDLEY, Samuel Price Conspiracy to steal government property

HANDLEY, Woodie Randolph Conspiracy to steal government property

HARMON, Jay Houston 1. Conspiracy to import marijuana, conspiracy to possess marijuana with intent to distribute, importation of marijuana, possession of marijuana with intent to distribute 2. Conspiracy to import cocaine

HEMMINGSON, John Interstate transport of stolen property, money laundering

HERDLINGER, David S. Mail fraud

HUCKLEBERRY, Debi RaeDistribution of methamphetamine

JAMES, Donald Ray Mail fraud, wire fraud, and false statement to a bank to influence credit approval

JOBE, Stanley Pruet Conspiracy to commit bank fraud, and bank fraud

JOHNSON, Ruben H. Theft and misapplication of bank funds by a bank officer or director

JONES, Linda Conspiracy to commit bank fraud and other offenses against the United States

LAKE, James Howard Illegal corporate campaign contributions, wire fraud

LEWIS, June Louise Embezzlement by a bank employee

LEWIS, Salim Bonnor Securities fraud, record keeping violations, margin violations

LODWICK, John Leighton Income tax evasion

LOPEZ, Hildebrando Distribution of cocaine

LUACES, Jose Julio Possession of an unregistered firearm

MANESS, James Timothy Conspiracy to distribute a controlled substance

MANNING, James Lowell Aiding and assisting in the preparation of a false corporate tax return

MARTIN, John Robert Income tax evasion

MARTINEZ, Frank Ayala Conspiracy to supply false documents to the Immigration and Naturalization Service

MARTINEZ, Silvia Leticia Beltran Conspiracy to supply false documents to the Immigration and Naturalization Service

McCORMICK, John Francis Racketeering conspiracy, racketeering, and violation of the Hobbs act

McDOUGAL, Susan H. Securities fraud, money laundering, real estate fraud

MITCHELL, Brook K., Sr. Conspiracy to illegally obtain USDA subsidy payments, false statements to USDA, and false entries on USDA forms

MORGAN, Charles Wilfred, III Conspiracy to distribute cocaine

MORISON, Samuel Loring Willful transmission of defense information, unauthorized possession and retention of defense information, theft of government property

NAZZARO, Richard Anthony Perjury and conspiracy to commit mail fraud

NOSENKO, Charlene Ann Conspiracy to defraud the United States, and influencing or injuring an officer or juror generally

OBERMEIER, Vernon Raymond Conspiracy to distribute cocaine, distribution of cocaine, and using a communications facility to facilitate distribution of cocaine

OGALDE, Miguelina Conspiracy to import cocaine

OWEN, David C. Filing a false tax return

PALMER, Robert W Conspiracy to make false statements

PERHOSKY, Kelli Anne Conspiracy to commit mail fraud

PEZZOPANE, Richard H. Conspiracy to commit racketeering, and mail fraud

PHILLIPS, Orville Rex Unlawful structure of a financial transaction

POLING, Vinson Stewart, Jr. Making a false bank entry, and aiding and abetting

PROUSE, Norman Lyle Operating or directing the operation of a common carrier while under the influence of alcohol

PRUITT, Willie H. H., Jr. Absent without official leave

PURSLEY, Danny Martin, Sr. Aiding and abetting the conduct of an illegal gambling business, and obstruction of state laws to facilitate illegal gambling

RAVENEL, Charles D. Conspiracy to defraud the United States

RAY, William Clyde Fraud using a telephone

REGALADO, Alfredo Failure to report the transportation of currency in excess of $10,000 into the United States

RICAFORT, Ildefonso Reynes Submission of false claims to Veterans Administration

RICH, Marc Switzerland fled prosecution for secruities fraud

RIDDLE, Howard Winfield Violation of the Lacey Act (receipt of illegally imported animal skins)

RILEY, Richard Wilson, Jr. Possession of cocaine with intent to distribute

ROBBINS, Samuel Lee Misprision of a felony

RODRIGUEZ, Joel Gonzales Theft of mail by a postal employee

ROGERS, Michael James Conspiracy to possess with intent to distribute marijuana

ROSS, Anna Louise Distribution of cocaine

RUST, Gerald Glen False declarations before grand jury

RUST, Jerri Ann False declarations before grand jury

RUTHERFORD, Bettye June Possession of marijuana with intent to distribute

SANDS, Gregory Lee Conspiracy to distribute cocaine

SCHWIMMER, Adolph Conspiracy to commit an offense against the United States, conspiracy to export arms and ammunition to a foreign country and related charges

SERETTI, Albert A., Jr. Conspiracy and wire fraud

SHAW, Patricia Campbell Hearst Armed bank robbery and using a firearm during a felony

SMITH, Gerald Owen Armed bank robbery

SPEAKE, Jimmie Lee Conspiracy to possess and utter counterfeit $20 Federal Reserve notes

STEWART, Charles Bernard Illegally destroying U.S. Mail

STEWART-ROLLINS, Marlena Francisca Conspiracy to distribute cocaine

TANNEHILL, Richard Lee Conspiracy and restraint of trade

TENAGLIA, Nicholas C. Receipt of illegal payments under the Medicare program

THOMAS, Gary Allen Theft of mail by postal employee

TODD, Larry Weldon Conspiracy to commit an offense against the U.S. in violation of the Lacey Act and the Airborne Hunting Act

TREVINO, Olga C. Misapplication by a bank employee

VAMVOUKLIS, Ignatious Possession of cocaine

VAN DE WEERD, Patricia A Theft by a U.S. Postal employee

WARMATH, Bill Wayne Obstruction of correspondence

WATSON, Jack Kenneth Making false statements of material facts to the U.S. Forest Service

WEBB, Donna Lynn False entry in savings and loan record by employee

WELLS, Donald William Possession of an unregistered firearm

WENDT, Robert H. Conspiracy to effectuate the escape of a federal prisoner

WILLIAMS, Jack L. Making false statements to federal agents

WILLIAMS, Kevin Arthur Conspiracy to distribute and possess with intent to distribute crack cocaine

WILLIAMS, Robert Michael Conspiracy to transport in foreign commerce securities obtained by fraud

WILSON, Jimmie Lee Converting property mortgaged or pledged to a farm credit agency, and converting public money to personal use

WINGATE, Thelma Louise Mail fraud

WOOD, Mitchell Couey Conspiracy to possess and to distribute cocaine

WOOD, Warren Stannard Conspiracy to defraud the United States by filing a false document with the Securities and Exchange Commission

WORTHEY, Dewey Medicaid fraud

YALE, Rick Allen Bank fraud

YASAK, Joseph A. Knowingly making under oath a false declaration regarding a material fact before a grand jury

YINGLING, William Stanley Interstate transportation of stolen vehicle

YOUNG, Phillip David Interstate transportation and sale of fish and wildlife

 

 

 

But, you know Pop, I'd just bet you have no problem at all when it's a Democrat screwing the law.

[Sand]

A nice limp slap on the wrist. Anyway, here is another reason to hate Bush and his Republican party.

 

The difference here, Guard Dog, Bush is supporting only his own team and doesn't give a rat's ass about anyone else while Clinton didn't really play to many favorites. Personally I think our legal system is too lax.

Edited July 2, 2007 by Sand

[Walsingham]

GD I expect a better defence from you than that. This isn't the fifth grade.

[Guard Dog]

GD I expect a better defense from you than that. This isn't the fifth grade.

There is no defense, I'm just pointing out hypocrisy. Sand and Pop say they hate Republicans for their corruption but have no problems with corruption from democrats. I don't think Libby deserved a pardon either.

[Hurlshort]

Eh, Libby was just a scapegoat anyways. I've seen enough conspiracy movies to know that!

 

Clinton probably can get free cocaine for life with all those pardons! Party at the Clinton's house!

[Kaftan Barlast]

Libby was their fallguy, obviously they had to keep their end of the bargain and make sure his "fall" is as painless as possible. Crook politics.

 

 

 

Cheney & Co make Nixon seem like an alright guy in comparison.

[Sand]

Actually I hate the Democrats as well, but at Clinton's sentence commutes were motivated more for helping others than keeping up the old boy network.

[Guard Dog]

Libby was their fallguy, obviously they had to keep their end of the bargain and make sure his "fall" is as painless as possible. Crook politics.

 

 

 

Cheney & Co make Nixon seem like an alright guy in comparison.

Which brings to mind the 16 names in Clinton's list who were connected to Whitewater, and could have testified against the him had they not been pardoned first. How does the corruption of Bush/Clinton/Nixon compare to each other? Just different varieties of rats.

[Guard Dog]

Actually I hate the Democrats as well, but at Clinton's sentence commutes were motivated more for helping others than keeping up the old boy network.

16 of those could have testified against him had they not been pardoned. 19 were for drug trafficking, 6 were for violent felonies, 7 were business associates of family members. Several were at the behest of other politicians who owed favors.

 

What was that you were saying?

[Sand]

For the most part I agree with you GD, but as I said this is just another reason to hate the Republicans, meaning it is one of many reasons why I will never support that party.

[Guard Dog]

For the most part I agree with you GD, but as I said this is just another reason to hate the Republicans, meaning it is one of many reasons why I will never support that party.

But when the Dems do it, it's ok? Just correct me if I'm wrong here because the other day you said you wanted them back in.

 

BTW, here is the link I got that stuff from: USDOJ Pardons

[Sand]

Is it okay? Nope, but there are less reasons to hate the Democrats overall compared to the Republicans. Are the Democrats optimal? Nope, but I rather have a Democrat President than a Republican President. Lesser of two evils as they say.

Edited July 3, 2007 by Sand

[Guard Dog]

Is it okay? Nope, but there are less reasons to hate the Democrats overall compared to the Republicans. Are the Democrats optimal? Nope, but I rather have a Democrat President than a Republican President. Lesser of two evils as they say.

Thats what I like about you Sand, you are honest AND consistent.

[Kaftan Barlast]

Cheney & Co make Nixon seem like an alright guy in comparison.

Which brings to mind the 16 names in Clinton's list who were connected to Whitewater, and could have testified against the him had they not been pardoned first. How does the corruption of Bush/Clinton/Nixon compare to each other? Just different varieties of rats.

 

 

Clinton did his fair share of dudgy things, but a bit of tax evation and extramarrital affairs is nowhere near what the 'bush clan' has been doing ever since the days of Nixon tracing back to when old man Bush got the money to go into oil from dealing with the Nazis. Im not saying they're some evil cabal of powermongering illuminati, they're simply about using political power to further themselves economicly. And the scale of which they are doing this makes Clintons shennanigans pale in comparison.

[Sand]

Thanks.

 

I just wish our system was more viable for a third or fourth party to have a chance getting into a high office. I may not agree with everything they stand for but it would be nice to shake things up a bit withe Libertarian controlled Congress and President.

Edited July 3, 2007 by Sand

[Enoch]

There are a lot of reasons why the Libby trial smells a little bad.

 

- The prosecutor investigating the case determined that there were no violations of the relevant intelligence-protection statute, but kept investigating, looking for procedural violations in complying with his investigation. Not illegal, but not particularly nice either. This is the same sort of conduct that had liberals calling for Ken Starr's head a decade ago.

 

- The special prosecutor's job description may well have been unconstitutional, but the judge dismissed this argument (which was authored by a dozen well-regarded Constitutional Law scholars) out of hand.

 

- The key evidence leading to conviction was that Libby had a different recollection of a phone conversation he had with Tim Russert than Russert did. But the judge refused to allow the defense's request that a memory expert be called to testify.

 

- The judge's sentence was unusually harsh. The sentencing guidelines for this type of crime recommends 15-21 months. Libby got 30.

 

- After the trial, Libby requested that the sentence be postponed until his appeal could be heard. Things like this are granted pretty normally in non-violent cases. Not here.

 

 

I'm no Republican, and on the whole, I'm glad that Libby was tried and convicted. But I don't like it when a criminal defendant gets harsher treatment simply because of his political associations. The guy has been thoroughly disgraced, and he still has to pay the $250,000 fine. The larger point that the Bush administration is not above the law has been made. That's enough for me.

[Enoch]

Which brings to mind the 16 names in Clinton's list who were connected to Whitewater, and could have testified against the him had they not been pardoned first. How does the corruption of Bush/Clinton/Nixon compare to each other? Just different varieties of rats.

2 Words: Iran Contra.

 

Crimes that compromise the national security of the U.S. >>>> possibly dodgy land deals.

[Guard Dog]

Which brings to mind the 16 names in Clinton's list who were connected to Whitewater, and could have testified against the him had they not been pardoned first. How does the corruption of Bush/Clinton/Nixon compare to each other? Just different varieties of rats.

2 Words: Iran Contra.

 

Crimes that compromise the national security of the U.S. >>>> possibly dodgy land deals.

 

I wonder if the folks who had their money in Madison Savings and Loan would agree.

 

IMHO the last GOOD President we had was Teddy Roosevelt. Only the Cubs have had a longer run without a winner.

 

Reagan was better than most, Iran Contra not withstanding.

[Sand]

I liked Jimmy Carter.

[Volourn]

Disrespect for the law? Huh? That's weird. Isn't the President LEGALLY allowed to give pardons, and 'commute' sentences? If so, this was the President upholding and using HIS legal powers. Nothing about disrepecting the law here.

[Guard Dog]

Disrespect for the law? Huh? That's weird. Isn't the President LEGALLY allowed to give pardons, and 'commute' sentences? If so, this was the President upholding and using HIS legal powers. Nothing about disrepecting the law here.

Very true and very well put. But you see, they don't LIKE Bush. In fact some of them say the HATE Bush. And some of those people are simply incapable of reasoning beyond their "feelings". Therefore whatever he does is wrong and is only wrong because he did it. Anyway, in 2001 Bill Clinton wrote an op-ed in the NY Times explaining his use of pardons at the end of the term. He unequivocally states, and I quote:

 

First, I want to make some general comments about pardons and commutations of sentences. Article II of the Constitution gives the president broad and unreviewable power to grant "Reprieves and Pardons" for all offenses against the United States. The Supreme Court has ruled that the pardon power is granted "[t]o the [president] . . ., and it is granted without limit" (United States v. Klein). Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes declared that "[a] pardon . . . is . . . the determination of the ultimate authority that the public welfare will be better served by [the pardon] . . ." (Biddle v. Perovich).

 

Basicly pardons and commutations are an executive privilidge and they are going to do it no matter how anyone feels about it. Now I certainly am no fan of Clinton (far from it) but he is correct. I listed his pardons as an example and he did have many, 450 total counting commutations, but Bush before him had 77, Reagan had 406, Carter had 577. GWB has 1, and everybody is in an uproar about it. Now I am not defending GWB and I am certainly no fan of his, my whole intent here was to point out the inherent hypocrisy in yelling about "Republican Corruption" and demanding the election of Democrats as though they were not just as filthy, if not worse. I've seen a few try to put a happy face on it by saying "Well Clinton did it to help people" or "The republicans only did it to make themselves rich". Both arguments are a little dumb, the people who posted those are much smarter than that. The truth is, GWB, Clinton, Carter, et al are ALL politicians, all cut from the same cloth and ALL do these things for the exact same reasons.

Edited July 3, 2007 by Guard Dog

[Sand]

Yes, but GWB annoys me while Clinton didn't.