New Fallout 3 Picture

[Tale]

Handy hints from Jim-the-resident-Shrink.

 

 

90% of a shrinks job is common sense and being willing to say things nobody else wants to, the other 10% is bull****.

Common sense is a combination of hindsight bias, after the fact justification, and mass cliches.

 

Don't confuse radio or television show doctors for psychologists.

Edited May 9, 2007 by Tale

[Pidesco]

^What he said

 

 

Did you know that my mom, my sister and my dad are all psychologists?

[Tale]

^What he said

 

 

Did you know that my mom, my sister and my dad are all psychologists?

What degrees do they have and what do they do?

[metadigital]

The problem wasn't Mr Stewart's acting, it was the appalling script he had to chew through. And the cretinous bunch of (four?) talentless over-actors they had do all the other thousand-odd NPC voices.

 

Again, this is basically my point. The hiring of a name actor has nothing to do with the quality of the game. It doesn't make it wonderful, nor does it make it suck. All it does is add name recognition that can be used by marketing.

 

Which has already been done, btw. The hiring of Liam Neeson has been a news item on most gaming news sites. It's a way to raise awareness of the game without actually having to buy ads (not that I'm sure it's cheaper than ads, just another means to results).

 

Of course, what they should have done is announce that Ron Perlman has been hired to play the narrator. That would at least have made a lot of the fans happy for a while. But I suppose Ron Perlman isn't well know enough for it to hit the news sites, Hellboy not withstanding.

Then we are in violent agreement!

[Fenghuang]

^What he said

 

 

Did you know that my mom, my sister and my dad are all psychologists?

 

And my dad's an MFT, before I was majoring in computer science I was majoring in psychology so I've taken several college level Psychology and Behavioral Development courses, and now my sister's majoring in psychology. What I am saying is I am not unfamiliar with the profession or the field.

 

To clarify, by common sense I meant peering through all the crap and getting at the real answers, which is the most important function of most therapists, IMO, along with a level of empathy and academia.

[Pidesco]

^What he said

 

 

Did you know that my mom, my sister and my dad are all psychologists?

What degrees do they have and what do they do?

 

My mom and my sister are clinical psychologists, although my sister specializes in children. My dad just has the degree, he never really did anything with it.

 

What about you?

 

 

 

 

 

In case you all are wondering, this is totally on topic.

[Tale]

^What he said

 

 

Did you know that my mom, my sister and my dad are all psychologists?

What degrees do they have and what do they do?

 

My mom and my sister are clinical psychologists, although my sister specializes in children. My dad just has the degree, he never really did anything with it.

 

What about you?

 

 

 

 

 

In case you all are wondering, this is totally on topic.

 

I'm about to get my BA. 2.9 GPA, so I'm just barely *bleeped* for grad school (and I didn't look into applying until after the cutoff date, anyway). I'm going to try to get some work experience before applying now. Don't know what I'm going to do, but I want to try something that has me working with ADHD kids, if at all possible. Of course, I don't know of any places that specialize in helping ADHD kids, so that's more of a "what I'd like to do" than what I'm likely to end up doing.

 

Main reason I asked is because I have no clue what I can do with a BA.

Edited May 9, 2007 by Tale

[metadigital]

Do I need to close this or just prune it?

[mkreku]

You need to go to another thread.

 

Shoo shoo, mighty moderator!

[Morgoth]

Looking at Beth's previous game, I wouldn't get my hopes up, though.

This is a bit annoying. What would you be looking at exactly? Bethesda has never done a Fallout game before, so what exactly are you comparing with? Surely, you must realize that looking at Oblivion is a bit pointless, at least when it comes to art design?

Well, for a start, it's the same (art) team that is working on F3. They already have done a lousy job in that regard with Oblivion, that's why I said they'll never reach the quality level of real artists a'la Leon & Co. There's alot of graphical expression that serves the story in Fallout, if they mess that up, half of the game is already lost.

 

Give them a chance to at least START the series before going all doom and gloom on their asses.

Hey, the internet wouldn't be that fun without some exaggerations.... And when it comes to Bethesda, doom and gloom is never really far away.

 

Oh the DRAMA!

Edited May 9, 2007 by Morgoth

[Tale]

I wouldn't get my hopes up for this game living up to the name Fallout 3 simply by virtue of how I perceive the modern game market. Fallout 3, to live up to the name, would require either a repetition of certain shared characteristics of Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 or a reasonable evolution of those very same characteristics. This includes the setting, atmosphere, and mechanics. Setting is the post-apocalyptic world and I believe that is very much accomplish able. Atmosphere is things like the humor and the mood the game evokes beyond the setting. Mechanics is the stat system and the turn based combat. It is mechanics I think the problem will be present. I have doubts that the game market, as it exists today, would be sufficiently receptive to a turn based RPG as to make that game a success. I also doubt that there is a reasonable evolution of the mechanics possible that would be sufficiently recieved. And I also think Bethesda likely agrees. Of course, this is only my opinion of the market and an assumption about Bethesda. Ultimately it would only come down to whether Bethesda agrees or not.

 

With just the setting and atmosphere, would Fallout 3 fit my criteria of a successor? No. Would it fit my criteria of a spin-off? Most definitely. Wouldn't even need the humor in that case.

 

Is it likely to be an awesome game? Damned if I know, I can only hope that regardless of whether or not it has my three criteria of a successor that it is fun.

Edited May 9, 2007 by Tale

[Spider]

While I agree mostly with what Tale is writing above, for me it's enough if it nails most of the elements from the original games to live up to the name as it is. If the setting and athmosphere are all top notch and SPECIAL remains intact (with adjustments), then changing to real time combat and first person view won't ruin the Fallout experience for me. Provided the new versions are of equal or better quality compared to the originals.

 

But in the end, as long as it's a fun game, everything else really doesn't matter.

[Tale]

I keep seeing the term SPECIAL thrown around. I'm not all up and down on the ling-o, so I don't know the specifics of what SPECIAL is. I was under the impression that SPECIAL was the system the game used. Which included everything from the stats, skills, and turn based mechanics. What is SPECIAL? Also, if it transitioned to first person view, wouldn't the combat have to be more like Deus Ex or Bloodlines (if it used stats at all, that is) as well?

Edited May 9, 2007 by Tale

[Morgoth]

I'm completely against the idea of using VO for every single NPC.

You'll only see that if they make an isometric-view game. That chance for that is, of course, the same as Volourn finishing his NWN mod.

 

R00fles!

Edited May 9, 2007 by Morgoth

[metadigital]

I keep seeing the term SPECIAL thrown around. I'm not all up and down on the ling-o, so I don't know the specifics of what SPECIAL is. I was under the impression that SPECIAL was the system the game used. Which included everything from the stats, skills, and turn based mechanics. What is SPECIAL? Also, if it transitioned to first person view, wouldn't the combat have to be more like Deus Ex or Bloodlines (if it used stats at all, that is) as well?

SPECIAL:

SPECIAL is an acronym standing for the primary stats in the system: Strength, Perception, Charisma, Agility, and Luck. SPECIAL is the ruleset that powers all the Fallout games with the exception of Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel. Initially, Fallout was meant to use the GURPS system by Steve Jackson Games. However, when SJG saw how violent Fallout was turning out to be, they pulled out of the agreement. Pen and paper games at the time were still reeling from endless instances in the 1980s of religious and parents' groups attacking role playing games, accusing them of inciting violence and other questionable habits into children's lives. Steve Jackson Games felt it would be wiser to not associated themselves with a game as graphically violent as Fallout. Fortunately for the Fallout team, the only element of GURPS in Fallout was the ruleset and the setting was entirely Interplay's, so they could continue development. Chris_Taylor, Jesse_Heinig and Tim Cain developed the SPECIAL system. Many elements from it are inspired by GURPS, but it is largely original.

 

Aside from Fallout games, SPECIAL was also used in Lionheart and two cancelled projects - TORN and Reflexive Entertainment's Deadlands game.

 

Related links

GURPS by Steve Jackson Games

[Pop]

What, no intelligence?

[Spider]

I keep seeing the term SPECIAL thrown around. I'm not all up and down on the ling-o, so I don't know the specifics of what SPECIAL is. I was under the impression that SPECIAL was the system the game used. Which included everything from the stats, skills, and turn based mechanics. What is SPECIAL? Also, if it transitioned to first person view, wouldn't the combat have to be more like Deus Ex or Bloodlines (if it used stats at all, that is) as well?

 

As Meta so handidly quoted, SPECIAL is indeed the rules behind it all. So yeah, it includes the turn based mechanics. However, one part of the system can be changed without it all going down the drain. So the turn based part can be changed to real time and still leave the system recognizable. For me the character creation part of the system is more important than combat, if for no other reason than that the combat in FO wasn't really that great. It's a decent turn based system, but compared to games like Jagged Alliance or Silent Storm it's nothing to write home about. Hell, even ToEE (if we want to stick to strictly RPG comparisons), for all it's flaws, had a much better turn based system in place.

 

This is not to say that there is no way to improve on it of course. Fallout Tactics did a good job with that. The turn based combat in that game was much better, if we ignore some glaring balancing issues.

 

Now, if Bethesda changed to first person view and real time combat, they would probably have to go with something akin to Bloodlines, as you point out. But if the underlying backbone is still SPECIAL (ie the stats, derived stats, skills, how armor works, etc) I could live with that, depending on how much is changed. As long as they leave the perks alone!

 

Of course, I would prefer it if the game mirrored the originals as much as possible when it comes to mechanics as well as setting and athmosphere. Improve on what needs to be improved and leave what doesn't. But the likelihood of that happening is slim. I just hope enough is left in to give a recognizable feeling.

 

(Oh, and Sand, don't bother posting that SPECIAL doesn't work in real time. I've heard that opinion a million times and I disagree with both your stance and your reasoning, so let's just leave it at that shall we?)

[Slowtrain]

It should be pointed out as well, that Josh had already made a lot of changes to the SPECIAL systems in his version of FO3 before it was canceled. To expect Bethesda to stick too closely to the system is probably asking too much, since SPECIAL does have problems and could probably benefit with a streamlining and a rebalancing.

 

To argue the pros and cons of the systems seems somewhat moot if the game is fun to play.

[metadigital]

What's fun got to do with it? It has to be tr00 SPECIAL!11!!eleven!11?1!

[Dark_Raven]

Long live SPECIAL.

[Jorian Drake]

The image is beautiful in its own morbid way.

Washington D.C. after another Republican presidential celebration party...

fixed

 

 

 

EDIT: i don't know much about both US partys, i just don't like Judge Hades making a political debate or a disaster or both of anything

Edited May 10, 2007 by Jorian Drake

[kirottu]

What political debate?

[Tigranes]

I'm not even gonna bother explaining this time.

 

I fail to see why Special is so integral to the fallout feeling, if the setting, atmosphere and so forth are achieved. I liked Special, but it's not necessary.

[Spider]

It comes down to personal preference. I like character building and as such, the system that governs character progression is important to me. And SPECIAL has the most fun character development, alongside Vampire Bloodlines, I've encountered in a crpg. So I want that part of the system to remain as intact as possible.

 

If Bethesda comes up with something equally entertaining, then that's fine as well. But Oblivion style character development will severely detract from my enjoyment of the game. So to me it matters quite a lot. Actually more than the setting.

 

Regardless, I am still judging the game on it's own merits. If it's fun, then nothing else really doesn't matter. Not the setting, not what atmosphere is presented and not what rules are used. If it's fun.

[Darque]

The image looks ok.

 

I'm more worried about gameplay, and how they are going to do dialogue.