The shape of things to come

[Guard Dog]

 

The Campaign Finance Reform Act (McCain-Feingold) changed the way politics and campaigns are paid for in the US. For example, it is now illegal for me (as a private citizen) to buy and pay for a newspaper, TV, or radio ad that advocates a certain candidate or political issue in the months before an election. It is a breach of the 1st Amendment IMHO but that is another issue. It seems once again the internet is changing the way we live communicate for the better. This ad was produced by an anonymous user and is getting a lot of talk. And since it does not fall under McCain Feingold there is nothing anyone an do about it and that is a good thing. Unbridled free speech. The internet is a beautiful thing.

 

I bet Apple is a little ticked, it was their ad after all. But since nothing is being bought or paid for, there is nothing they can do.

Edited March 21, 2007 by Guard Dog

[Sand]

Here is the counterattack ad!

 

 

In any case, may it be Clinton, Obama, Edwards, or whoever ends up on the Democrat ticket they will get my vote, meaningless as it is. After 8 years of bush I do not want to see another Republican in the White House for decades. It will take that long just to clean up the mess the Republicans made.

Edited March 21, 2007 by Sand

[roshan]

If a democrat gets elected, America might pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan, leaving those nations in total chaos. Both of them are going to end up being centers of ethnic and religious genocide. I hope America remains republican.

[Sand]

If a democrat gets elected, America might pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan, leaving those nations in total chaos. Both of them are going to end up being centers of ethnic and religious genocide. I hope America remains republican.

 

If those countries can't act in a civilized manner that is their problem, not ours. We have given Iraq 4 years, and at least another year to boot to get their act together. If they fail then so be it. We have given them enough aid. The rest is up to them. As for Afganistan we got rid of the Taliban for them. Now the rest is up to them. If they can't get their crap together then they deserve to be oppressed or worse. The United States is not a nanny service.

[Arkan]

If a democrat gets elected, America might pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan, leaving those nations in total chaos. Both of them are going to end up being centers of ethnic and religious genocide. I hope America remains republican.

 

If those countries can't act in a civilized manner that is their problem, not ours. We have given Iraq 4 years, and at least another year to boot to get their act together. If they fail then so be it. We have given them enough aid. The rest is up to them. As for Afganistan we got rid of the Taliban for them. Now the rest is up to them. If they can't get their crap together then they deserve to be oppressed or worse. The United States is not a nanny service.

 

 

Well, we fired their last nanny, so I do think we owe it to them to find a suitable replacement.

[Sand]

So, how long does our government support those people instead of its own? 5 more years? 10? 30? A century or more? How much of US citizen's tax dollars should benefit foreigners?

 

It is time, well past time, that our government puts our needs first instead of Israel's, Iraq's, Afganistan's, and so on. Let a nation rise or fall based on the actions or inactions of its own people. If we go the Democrats pullout plan it would be 5 years we have helped Iraq. If they aren't going to get their act together in that much time then they never will and we should have no part of it, especially since we went in that country on false pretenses in the first place.

Edited March 21, 2007 by Sand

[WITHTEETH]

I like these kinda ads, the bears one is hilarious, although i do like Obama thus far.

[roshan]

If a democrat gets elected, America might pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan, leaving those nations in total chaos. Both of them are going to end up being centers of ethnic and religious genocide. I hope America remains republican.

 

If those countries can't act in a civilized manner that is their problem, not ours. We have given Iraq 4 years, and at least another year to boot to get their act together. If they fail then so be it. We have given them enough aid. The rest is up to them. As for Afganistan we got rid of the Taliban for them. Now the rest is up to them. If they can't get their crap together then they deserve to be oppressed or worse. The United States is not a nanny service.

 

I think America has a moral responsibility in Iraq and Afghanistan. Besides, it seems to me that on the whole, the non fanatical Iraqis and Afghans are happy with the Americans.

[Sand]

The US government has no moral responsibility to Iraq or Afganistan. The US government's only responsibility is to US citizens. Iraq and Afganistan has the responsibility to take care of themselves. Four years is long enough for holding their hands. Time for us to focus on matters here at home.

[Sand]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070321/ap_on_el_pr/clinton_ad

 

The creator has been exposed! Too bad he resigned from his job for he seemed very talented.

[Walsingham]

If a democrat gets elected, America might pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan, leaving those nations in total chaos. Both of them are going to end up being centers of ethnic and religious genocide. I hope America remains republican.

 

You've got my vote, mate.

[taks]

If those countries can't act in a civilized manner that is their problem, not ours.

unfortunately, for better or worse, we put them in this situation so it is our problem.

 

We have given Iraq 4 years, and at least another year to boot to get their act together. If they fail then so be it. We have given them enough aid. The rest is up to them.

we occupied japan for 7 years after WWII.

 

As for Afganistan we got rid of the Taliban for them. Now the rest is up to them. If they can't get their crap together then they deserve to be oppressed or worse. The United States is not a nanny service.

realistically, they're even worse off. even when the taliban was in charge, tribal warlords dominated local rule. agreed, however, that the US needs to get out of the nanny business. let the UN deal with 'em all, and maybe, finally, the world will figure out exactly how worthless the UN really is without US help.

 

taks

[Volourn]

"unfortunately, for better or worse, we put them in this situation so it is our problem."

 

Nah. The Taliban and Hussein put them in this situation. There'd have been no invasions if it wans't for the choice those former leaders made.

 

 

"realistically, they're even worse off."

 

I doubt the Afghanistanians are worse off now under non Taliban rule than theyw ere when the Taliban ruled. Don't forget that many of the Warlords you speak of have slowly begun to join the new national government. Things may not be great; but worse than ebfore; I have my doubts.

 

And, Iraq was pretty much in ruin before the invasion. Before Saddam and early in his rule, Iraq was one of the most advanced nations in the ME even ricalling Isreal (if not surpassing it). His decisions ruined because of wars, slaughtering Iraqis, and a host of other poor decisions he made.

 

Why do people forget the history?

 

 

Anyways, the US and its allies shouldn't leave either country until it's releatively ensured fo stability like Japan and Germany were.

Edited March 23, 2007 by Volourn

[Sand]

This isn't World War 2, Volourn. We didn't invade or attack Japan or Germany until we ourselves were attacked. Iraq was a mistake from beginning to now and it is far past time to correct that mistake.

[Volourn]

Mnay mistakes have been made; the removal of Saddam's regime was not one of them. R00fles!

[Sand]

Invading a country on false pretenses is always a mistake regardless what country it is and who its leader was.

[Guard Dog]

This isn't World War 2, Volourn. We didn't invade or attack Japan or Germany until we ourselves were attacked. Iraq was a mistake from beginning to now and it is far past time to correct that mistake.

 

The US was attacked by Japan in 1941. We invaded Italy in 1943, France in 1944, and Germany in 1945. We never invaded Japan during wartime. Ironically enough, the US has never invaded a country that actually attacked us. We did not invade Spain in 1903, we never invaded England either time (as if we could). When the Mexican wars were fought, Texas was a sovereign nation. I'm not saying anything here, just pointing out irony.

[Sand]

We did attack Japan during wartime did we not or did you simply miss the "or" qualifier on purpose?

[Guard Dog]

We did attack Japan during wartime did we not or did you simply miss the "or" qualifier on purpose?

 

We did not "invade" Japan. But no, I was not even trying to make a point here. I just got to thinking about it and found that ironic so I pointed it out.

 

As for the discussion at hand, that horse died loong ago. I'm tired of beating it. It's OT anyway, but I don't care about that.

[taks]

Nah. The Taliban and Hussein put them in this situation. There'd have been no invasions if it wans't for the choice those former leaders made.

uh, the occupation is what i meant. i.e., we occupied them, so it is our responsibility to clean that up.

 

 

I doubt the Afghanistanians are worse off now under non Taliban rule than theyw ere when the Taliban ruled. Don't forget that many of the Warlords you speak of have slowly begun to join the new national government. Things may not be great; but worse than ebfore; I have my doubts.

i wasn't saying "worse off than before." it was meant to read "worse off than the iraq situation," but only in some respects. the taliban only loosely controlled afghanistan to begin with. they have no where to go but up should a real form of leadership appear.

 

And, Iraq was pretty much in ruin before the invasion. Before Saddam and early in his rule, Iraq was one of the most advanced nations in the ME even ricalling Isreal (if not surpassing it). His decisions ruined because of wars, slaughtering Iraqis, and a host of other poor decisions he made.

decisions designed to benefit him, not his country. he was beyond a menace.

 

Why do people forget the history?

i forget nothing. you just misinterpreted my intended meaning.

 

Anyways, the US and its allies shouldn't leave either country until it's releatively ensured fo stability like Japan and Germany were.

total agreement.

 

taks

[taks]

This isn't World War 2, Volourn. We didn't invade or attack Japan or Germany until we ourselves were attacked. Iraq was a mistake from beginning to now and it is far past time to correct that mistake.

immaterial, and an invalid point. iraq did attack us, first of all, though not with the same level of magnitude. the point is that whether or not iraq was a mistake, it takes time to reorganize a screwed up government. japan took 7 years. iraq will probably be the same, though their previous situation was MUCH worse than japan's was at the time of our occupation.

 

taks

[Sand]

When did Iraq directly attack the US? wasn't during the Kuwaiti war because they attacked Kuwait and not the US. Wasn't this second time around for we invaded them. Tell, Taks, when did Iraqi military under Saddam attack US citizens on US soil?

Edited March 23, 2007 by Sand

[Volourn]

Taks: WOW, Your post is all twisted. Completely different meaning, indeed.

 

Sand: One does not need to launch attacks on another's soil to directly attack one. Attacking an Amerikan because they happen to be Amerikan is an attack on Amerika even if that Amerikan was in Japan at the time. R00fles!

[Sand]

Folowing that logic, at which time did Iraq attack American citizens, in which they were the target of the Iraqi military, just prior of our invasion of 5 years ago? Iraq had no WMDs when we invaded, and no ties to Al Qaeda no matter how much Bushie wanted them to be. So where and when did the Iraqi military attacked America just prior our invasion?

[Volourn]

"no ties to Al Qaeda"

 

This isn't true. They surely had *some* ties.

 

 

"So where and when did the Iraqi military attacked America just prior our invasion?"

 

*shrug* Were'nt the Iraqis in the habit of shooting at the US (and British) planes patrolling the Kurdish areas?

 

R00fles!