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If 100 people needs to die to save 100000 people..


Eddo36

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There are some things that need to be socialized in my opinion.  Things like what the population needs as a whole on a constant basis.  Utilities, medical care, and the like.  Basic needs being fulfilled so of thing.  Extra stuff like entertainment, toys, luxuries, and the like should be held privately in a competitive market for they aren't needed for basic human living.

 

 

What do you mean by "need to be socialist"? Purchased by the government and then distributed in some way?

People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair.

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There are some things that need to be socialized in my opinion.  Things like what the population needs as a whole on a constant basis.  Utilities, medical care, and the like.  Basic needs being fulfilled so of thing. 

just because compassionates such as yourself (and any other holding socialist views) think this is reason enough to implement it, doesn't mean it can work. the unfortunate fact is that ideals cannot exist in the real world simply because of human will. demand is impossible to counter in a socialist system, even if it is implemented only for a single aspect, such as health care. "partial" socialism is probably feeding the health-care expansion as it is (referred to as partial because of HMOs and government restrictions). if left to its own devices, it would track with demand (as every other capitalist aspect does) and follow inflation.

 

socialism creates its own excuse for existence, before bankrupting itself.

 

taks

Edited by taks

comrade taks... just because.

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Purchased, distributed, owned by the government given freely or at cost to the public.

Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer.

 

@\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?"

Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy."

Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand"

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And those 100 people hates those other 100,000 people, do those 100 people have the right to defend themselves?

 

All I'm asking for is if they have the moral right to try to defend themselves, whether it is a lost cause or not.

 

I don't think anyone here morally disagrees with the 100 (red. Iraqies) defending themselves.. although many would probably disagree from either a political/religious or pragmatic viewpoint..

 

 

 

also a tougher moral dilemma usually involves the ones you ask and a tangible number of other people to sacrifised ..

 

like this one:

 

let's say you were in a control room in a trainstation - you suddenly see a train approaching a Y split - on one of the tracks 5 men are reparing a signal (all wearing headphones which means they can't her the train) and on the other track a single man is inspecting the rails (also wearing headphones).. none of them are noticing, or will notice, the approaching train.. the train will hit the five men unless you redirect it.. which only requires you to psuh a single button..

 

what will you do?

Edited by Rosbjerg

Fortune favors the bald.

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Of course to pay for this service there would be a need of increased taxes or a major change in the tax law. Frankly I would like to deep six the IRS and have our government get its money via a federal sales tax. Increase all taxable items 5 cents on the dollar, more for expensive luxury items (maybe 15 cents on the dollar for anything above $150,000).

Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer.

 

@\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?"

Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy."

Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand"

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Of course to pay for this service there would be a need of increased taxes or a major change in the tax law.  Frankly I would like to deep six the IRS and have our government get its money via a federal sales tax.  Increase all taxable items 5 cents on the dollar, more for expensive luxury items (maybe 15 cents on the dollar for anything above $150,000).

 

 

Good luck with that.

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

 

- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

 

"I have also been slowly coming to the realisation that knowledge and happiness are not necessarily coincident, and quite often mutually exclusive" - meta

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Good luck with what? I know it will never happen.

Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer.

 

@\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?"

Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy."

Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand"

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Why specifically those values?  Why 5%, and 15%?

 

They seem to be a reasonable numbers. I would think that in a capitalistic consumer based society that the US is this would be the optimal way for the government to get their money. I think it would be far more efficient than the IRS system as the taxpayers would have the illusion of making more money thusly spend more money, and the government would get their taxes directly, and we would able to eliminate the costly and inefficient institutions like the IRS. It would save time and money.

Edited by Sand

Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer.

 

@\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?"

Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy."

Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand"

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Frankly I would like to deep six the IRS and have our government get its money via a federal sales tax. Increase all taxable items 5 cents on the dollar, more for expensive luxury items (maybe 15 cents on the dollar for anything above $150,000).

it would actually take in the neighborhood of 20% for a sales tax to work. people on the low-end of the tax bracket now don't really realize how much the top 10% is paying overall (the nonsense coming out of trolls such as hillary about getting rid of the "tax-breaks for the rich" is a joke... they're paying almost all of it, of course they benefit from tax breaks more than the poor).

 

anyway, at the very least, a sales tax could not be questioned on constitutional grounds and it would certainly get rid of the irs. also, it is the only fair way to tax people, i.e. via their usage not their income. the poor would get breaks simply because they are not buying as much. if you want to pay less in taxes, spend less on non-essential items (that means no tax on food, etc.)

 

taks

comrade taks... just because.

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in Denmark we pay 25% in turnover taxes.. from food to cars and clothing..

 

and we still pay 50% in taxes on our income.. so it won't generate as much income as you might think..

Edited by Rosbjerg

Fortune favors the bald.

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And those 100 people hates those other 100,000 people, do those 100 people have the right to defend themselves?

 

All I'm asking for is if they have the moral right to try to defend themselves, whether it is a lost cause or not.

 

I don't think anyone here morally disagrees with the 100 (red. Iraqies) defending themselves.. although many would probably disagree from either a political/religious or pragmatic viewpoint..

 

 

 

also a tougher moral dilemma usually involves the ones you ask and a tangible number of other people to sacrifised ..

 

like this one:

 

let's say you were in a control room in a trainstation - you suddenly see a train approaching a Y split - on one of the tracks 5 men are reparing a signal (all wearing headphones which means they can't her the train) and on the other track a single man is inspecting the rails (also wearing headphones).. none of them are noticing, or will notice, the approaching train.. the train will hit the five men unless you redirect it.. which only requires you to psuh a single button..

 

what will you do?

Stop the train, of course. ^_^

OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS

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OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT

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The problem there is is that trains don't stop on a dime. I would redirect, apply the breaks and blare the horns.

Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer.

 

@\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?"

Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy."

Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand"

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and to think we are still some of the richest people on Earth is even more mind boggling.. ^_^

 

---

 

About the train:

Did I forget to mention that you can't stop it? either you do nothing and 5 people die or you take action and 1 person die..

Fortune favors the bald.

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in Denmark we pay 25% in turnover taxes.. from food to cars and clothing..

 

and we still pay 50% in taxes on our income.. so it won't generate as much income as you might think..

it works in the US because we simply spend more. also, the myth is that increased income tax actually increases tax revenues 1:1... not true. low income tax and (relatively) high sales tax would do well. plus, the US doesn't have nearly as much government benefits as denmark.

 

taks

comrade taks... just because.

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And those 100 people hates those other 100,000 people, do those 100 people have the right to defend themselves?

 

All I'm asking for is if they have the moral right to try to defend themselves, whether it is a lost cause or not.

 

I don't think anyone here morally disagrees with the 100 (red. Iraqies) defending themselves.. although many would probably disagree from either a political/religious or pragmatic viewpoint..

 

 

 

also a tougher moral dilemma usually involves the ones you ask and a tangible number of other people to sacrifised ..

 

like this one:

 

let's say you were in a control room in a trainstation - you suddenly see a train approaching a Y split - on one of the tracks 5 men are reparing a signal (all wearing headphones which means they can't her the train) and on the other track a single man is inspecting the rails (also wearing headphones).. none of them are noticing, or will notice, the approaching train.. the train will hit the five men unless you redirect it.. which only requires you to psuh a single button..

 

what will you do?

 

Push the STOP TRAIN button

 

 

 

EDIT: I see Meta had the same idea

Edited by jorian

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