What's so bad about the dark side anyway?

[Xard]

Not if you deeply roleplay

[Rosbjerg]

yes what is so bad about the dark side anyway ..

Today many hold the belief of moral relativism - that states that a morality holds no absolute truth and is subjective based on the cultur, social position and historical background of the person in question (as well as his own idea of all said) - and while I too adhear to this form - It's not comparable with SW, sure you will see some of it shine through - as the story is again based on Earth's culture, social history and historical events. It's in a way GL's own moral relativism taken to the extreme - as all other factors are removed, but his imagination.

and when this is the case it's moot to question it within itself, you can draw conclusions on our reality - but all that you will find by analysing morality insinde SW (and confining it to SW) is your own version of a constructed universe. Which doesn't say much about what you analyzed, just what you chose to see..

Now this is true because things can be absolute in fictional works - good is doing so and so ... an evil is doing the opposite.. and I believe this holds true for SW.. and of course there are shades of grey in our reality - but that's why we write these stories - so that we can have a look at ourselves through new eyes.

 

(disclaimer: I know I wrote this as if it's an absolute thruth myself - but you can look at this as a piece of fiction as well - I create a personal universe and try to implement things from reality in it.. in order to explain said things without having to write: I think, I believe and it's my understanding that - etc. )

[CSI: Nihilus]

Darkside, hmm?

 

There is no absolute right or absolute wrong. Therefore there is no absolute light or absolute dark. But darkside is just a contradiction of lightside.

 

Let me ask you a question:

 

Is there any visible light that can penetrate everything?

 

The answer is no. There is always opposites for many things. Light-Dark, benevolent-malevolent, kind-evil, and much more.

[Benjamin Korr]

You contridict yourself mate. Is there any "VISABLE" light??? What difference does it make if it's visable or not? Is the force visable? No.

 

Dark=evil

Light=good

 

Where you are getting confused is that no SW character ever fully reaches the extreme of one side or the other, and so sometimes you see a bad character do something not so sinister, or a good character something not so good. There may not be any perfect example of the two sides, but the sides themselves are as different as night and day.

[CSI: Nihilus]

Eh, maybe, but my point is there is no "absolute" things.

 

There fore no absolute dark or absolute light...Which means no absolute evil or absolute good...

[Purgatorio]

That's because the alignment system of starwars is too restrictive, there is no Chaotic Evil, or Lawful Evil. Nor is there Chaotic, or Lawful for Good.

OOTS.

[Diego Varen]

The dark side makes me feel guility whenever I kill someone out of cold blood, etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You're just a weakling Jedi, Just Kiddin....... naw.... that should happen, unless your talking about the game, cuz then that would just be stupid

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well even on KOTOR and TSL, I feel guilty doing the dark side (Mostly on TSL, since it is a bad time for the galaxy). On JA, I had no feeling when I killed Rosh or any of the Jedi, since I think the dark side wasn't done very well. I feel guilty being dark in real life.

[Guest The Architect]

Well even on KOTOR and TSL, I feel guilty doing the dark side (Mostly on TSL, since it is a bad time for the galaxy). On JA, I had no feeling when I killed Rosh or any of the Jedi, since I think the dark side wasn't done very well. I feel guilty being dark in real life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's just a game though. It's not as if being DS in a video game makes you a d**khead in real life. I think if you feel guilty doing a DS/evil act in a video game, then you're too sensitive.

 

Although it's understandable that in your first play through, you may play the game how you would in real life (I do this my self) you should always try all the variables, to get the full experience.

 

Doing a DS act in K1 and K2 is fun. Even know you know that most of the time you're being a f**khead, so what? To feel guilty about it is just...weird, since it's only a game. Whooptie do.

Edited December 10, 2006 by The Architect

[Plano Skywalker]

as far as the subject is concerned dealing specifically with KOTOR, I do think the crossover penalty for using a power that is not consistent with the character's alignment should be more severe than it is. that is consistent with the movies, I think. Lsers should not depend on Drain Life and Dsers should not be using Heal, for instance. that is just how I see it. (we could stand to use more and better Universal Powers, like Force Throw, I think).

 

also, having joinable factions would help, I think, better establish the good guys from bad....do enough stuff that is against the philosophy of your faction and you get kicked out.

 

probably the biggest hole in the KOTOR alignment system is the lack of chaotic options (for both LS and DS). The Lser is a paladin and the Dser is a bully. It would be fine if the game did nothing when the character did something chaotic but the game punishes and rewards chaotic decisions as evil. That needs to change.

 

and finally, I do think there should be a discernable Neutral path (with factions) but that the Neutral character cannot take a Prestige Class since that requires so much dedication and focus. Neutral force sensitives is somewhat outside the SW paradigm so should be limited in some ways, otherwise, everybody would do that and that would not be a SW experience. the Neutral path should be the hardest one to do...something for an advance player.

[Sturm]

I laugh at people who either take strong liking to one side, too far at times. Seriously the people that are like "zOMG mein uBer lvl 666 pure pwnage DS character is soooo leet, I liek embrace teh darkside and liek full eveel on starwarzorz!"

 

They act like they are cool, and evil.. but really, open your eyes, your discussing about it on this forum.

 

kthx.

[Anakin Skywalker]

The dark side makes me feel guility whenever I kill someone out of cold blood, etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You're just a weakling Jedi, Just Kiddin....... naw.... that should happen, unless your talking about the game, cuz then that would just be stupid

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well even on KOTOR and TSL, I feel guilty doing the dark side (Mostly on TSL, since it is a bad time for the galaxy). On JA, I had no feeling when I killed Rosh or any of the Jedi, since I think the dark side wasn't done very well. I feel guilty being dark in real life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Wow, you have a problem, let me help you with that.... just PM me.

[Sturm]

Some of you newbies act like PMing is the best thing ever invented since sliced bread.

[Anakin Skywalker]

Please I hate PM systems, I have been a member at LucasForums, myyearbook.com, and facebook.com for a while... but Diego Varen doesn't have MSN nor Yahoo Messenger, which I have both, CSI asked him one day... so that leaves PM as a result, and I don't want to tangle threads up by Spam...

Edited December 11, 2006 by RevanSithMaster

[Rosbjerg]

Some of you newbies act like PMing is the best thing ever invented since sliced bread.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I would've pointed out that you weren't quite out of the woods yourself yet.. but you've been here over a year.. so.. guess that clears ya .. (darn it) <_<

[fingolfin92]

you want something like this, then read the new jedi order, and the dark nest trilogy afterwards, has some interesting theries in them, including the agreement in the end that there is no "dark side", but that its the dark in you.

[CSI: Nihilus]

you want something like this, then read the new jedi order, and the dark nest trilogy afterwards, has some interesting theries in them, including the agreement in the end that there is no "dark side", but that its the dark in you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Tell you what...

 

There is always a bit Darkside in all of us.

 

Back on topic:

 

Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.

 

And I think Suffering leads to destruction, therefore...Darkside.

Edited December 16, 2006 by CSI: Nihilus

[Diego Varen]

you want something like this, then read the new jedi order, and the dark nest trilogy afterwards, has some interesting theries in them, including the agreement in the end that there is no "dark side", but that its the dark in you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Tell you what...

 

There is always a bit Darkside in all of us.

 

Back on topic:

 

Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.

 

And I think Suffering leads to destruction, therefore...Darkside.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And then for some, redemption.

[Plano Skywalker]

I always imagined that the Sith would just kill them selves off. There are plenty of times when you see them killing each other. I thought about it one day and and imagined that the Sith would never realy pose a big threat, after all they weakin themselves at every possible chance. They want to kill everyone, even themselves, and the good guys want to help everyone. So the good guys will try to be here tomorrow and the bad guys will be lucky to.

 

I quoted the lensman seires above because it was the best set of bad guys I have yet to come across.

 

Not even Hitler ran his crazy operation like the Sith do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

the Sith are effectively Chaotic Evil while the Jedi are effectively Lawful Good. what might be interesting would be to see joinable factions in the future games. It would still have the Jedi/Sith axis but with a Lawful Evil splinter group for Sith and a more Chaotic splinter group for Jedi. Plus a tree-hugging Neutral faction for good measure.

 

that would make for a much more fleshed out world...Jedi putting out Jedi brush fires and Sith putting out Sith brush fires, at least early on in the game.

[Darth Mortis]

the Sith are effectively Chaotic Evil while the Jedi are effectively Lawful Good.  what might be interesting would be to see joinable factions in the future games.  It would still have the Jedi/Sith axis but with a Lawful Evil splinter group for Sith and a more Chaotic splinter group for Jedi.  Plus a tree-hugging Neutral faction for good measure.

 

that would make for a much more fleshed out world...Jedi putting out Jedi brush fires and Sith putting out Sith brush fires, at least early on in the game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Lucasarts would probably frown on that as it would be against the way the Starwars universe seems to work. Even 'Neutral' Characters like Jolie Bindo or Kreia tend to get pushed into either a 'Good' camp or a 'Evil' Camp in the end.

[Plano Skywalker]

Lucasarts would probably frown on that as it would be against the way the Starwars universe seems to work. Even 'Neutral' Characters like Jolie Bindo or Kreia tend to get pushed into either a 'Good' camp or a 'Evil' Camp in the end.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree that it will always come down to helping the Jedi or helping the Sith and that those will always be the predominant factions.

 

But the Ancient setting is the perfect time for factions....for instance, we still don't know if there is a difference between the Revan/Malak Sith and the True Sith. It would appear that there is but that has yet to be revealed.

 

The Ancient setting is always in a state of flux and is the perfect time for splinter groups (as long as it always maintains Jedi and Sith as the main factions).

 

EDIT: Neutral factions would be the most problematic canon-wise but as long as they are given steep handicaps (such as no prestige classes), I think it could work. Make it too accessible and you loose the epic Star Wars feel.

Edited December 17, 2006 by Plano Skywalker

[Darth Mortis]

I agree that it will always come down to helping the Jedi or helping the Sith and that those will always be the predominant factions.

 

But the Ancient setting is the perfect time for factions....for instance, we still don't know if there is a difference between the Revan/Malak Sith and the True Sith.  It would appear that there is but that has yet to be revealed.

 

The Ancient setting is always in a state of flux and is the perfect time for splinter groups (as long as it always maintains Jedi and Sith as the main factions).

 

EDIT:  Neutral factions would be the most problematic canon-wise but as long as they are given steep handicaps (such as no prestige classes), I think it could work.  Make it too accessible and you loose the epic Star Wars feel.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree that it would be nice to see-after all Kreia does say in KOTOR2 that any remaining members of the Jedi order are no longer Jedi so they could be something else I just don't see Lucasarts accepting this in a game, they tend to go for black and white interprations not shades of gray. Think we'll be stuck with LS/DS in the end.

[Plano Skywalker]

well, if you think about it, it is kind of odd that they allowed K2 to be published with such an enigmatic and ellusive view of right and wrong.

 

or, perhaps, they aren't as particular as we might think.

[Rosbjerg]

well, if you think about it, it is kind of odd that they allowed K2 to be published with such an enigmatic and ellusive view of right and wrong.

 

or, perhaps, they aren't as particular as we might think.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

or maybe Obsidian had a good spin-doctor?

[Sturm]

Some of you newbies act like PMing is the best thing ever invented since sliced bread.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I would've pointed out that you weren't quite out of the woods yourself yet.. but you've been here over a year.. so.. guess that clears ya .. (darn it) <_<

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yay for 2000 most non spam posts

[Xard]

Some of you newbies act like PMing is the best thing ever invented since sliced bread.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I would've pointed out that you weren't quite out of the woods yourself yet.. but you've been here over a year.. so.. guess that clears ya .. (darn it) <_<

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yay for 2000 most non spam posts

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

O RLY

YA RLY

NO WAI!!11!!1!

 

:D