What's so bad about the dark side anyway?

[Deadly_Nightshade]

What's so bad about the dark side anyway?

 

Ahem, to answer the question, nothing. Its a perception, a point of view, like Palpatine said to Anakin. The Dark Side is a perception, both politically and traditionally. The Dark Side is the manifestation of one's emotion formed through rage, suffering, loss, or ambition. There is nothing bad about it, its just others' perception of the Dark Side and its view of the force, both natural and artificial. Once can interpret the Dark Side in many ways, but there is no definite Evil about it. Even if you are a converted Dark Jedi or a Sith, the notion of religious good and evil still exists. This goes the same with the followers of the light side. There is evil, deceit, corruption, disregard, and hate. There is non-violence, diplomacy, respect, and forgiveness. What makes these both true ideals, and not just the perception of a side is consequences. The Sith do not take into account retribution, innocence, and the the regard of others but yourself. They use others. The Jedi Code will have none of this. Evil and corruption does exist, destroying the billions of lives upon a planet is a morally determined example the Sith do not face / justify. The Jedi do not have their noses involved with such - if they are viewed as weak for valuing life, wars are bound to be fought. But a faction working for the good of a whole, perhaps something like the Republic, cannot be ignored and its prosperity lasted countless years. The Prosperity of the Sith Rule, think of this? What was it - not even half a century? And before, always a broken up power? There certainly is a difference and significance of both good and evil.

 

To use an allagory:

 

There is a river that runs through a valley that provides water and nutrients to all the plants and the animals within that valley. There is also a native group of people who use this water for growing food and drinking out of. This river is the force and the natives are the Jedi.

 

The river is balanced when it is able to find it's natural route while the natives draw from it to sustain their lives.

 

Now picture a non-native group of people who decide to dam up the river and build up the banks. The feel that they need to control the river to not only survive, but to expand their power (as opposed to the natives who draw from it in its natural course). These non-natives are the sith who seek to control the force as opposed to listen to it and draw from it.

 

There is no definitive Evil about the Dark Side. The Dark Side is not Bad by any means. It doesn't matter whether there were Humane Sith Lords or not. The world is filled with opinions of Good and Bad. Its how those select few control the Dark Side to their advantage. The creator of Star Wars states that the Dark Side is indeed bad, but Creators aren't always right, even though the universe is created through their mind. Its a matter of perception, what you think is bad and I think is bad can be two different Evils if you will, the only definitive answer to Good and Evil is Religious Tradition, and that perception of Good and Evil is not always clear, or right by any means.

 

As for justification in Good and Evil, again, no definitive answer. Anyone can have different agendas for such means they'll go to either be Good or Bad. Whether one meets an end, there are always going to be people's perception on whether what one did was good and bad. Majority's perception isn't always right, and the Minority's perception is always shunned by Society for being Different in all means.

 

 

The Dark side and Light side aren't inherently 'good' or 'bad'; to imply that they are is to imply that the Force is a self-aware, thinking being. The Force is exactly what the name implies; a neutral force of nature. Arguing whether or not it is good or evil is like arguing over whether or not fire or electricity is good or evil. Both are simply tools that can be used either benignly or malignantly

 

I also don't see Emotion as a Dark Side trait. Emotion is not a Dark Side trait, it is an inescapable trait in Human Beings, not only Dark Side Users, but Light Side Users as well, and Emotion is always going to be factor, whether a tiny portion or large portion, of your decisions, regardless of whether you're aligned with the Dark Side or not. You can't honestly say that Emotion is a Dark Side trait, because it isn't. It is, however, abused in the Dark Side of the Force, and influenced, but it never really is connected to the Dark Side.

 

Bottom line, there is no Dark nor Light side of the Force. There is only the Force. Even the Jedi Code states "....there is the Force" not the light side of the Force. The Force is neither good nor evil. It just is. There is no consiencness that the Force has. It guides and controls on how much we let it. Nothing without consiencness can make decisions on doing good or bad things. Only the users make that decision. Luke asked Obi Wan if the Force controls your actions, his response, "Partially, but it also obeys your commands." That right there proves that the Force is dark or light depending on how we use it. The Dark side of the light side is a point of view. When Jedi fight, they are aggressive, which leads to the dark side. But it only leads to the dark side by releasing and giving in to your emotions. I'm saying that the Force is neither good nor evil. How can it be? It just is. You tell me that the Force started in darkness, making it evil and the Jedi made it light as being the beacon of light. That's a metafore. I agree about the Jedi being the beacon of light, but not in a sense that they made the Force good nor evil. It's still a perception. To say that the Force is evil is like saying a tree is evil. A tree is neither. Forget the fact that a tree needs light to survive, but its the actions of the tree. The tree doesn't do evil or good things. If a tree falls on a person and kills them, that's evil. But, the tree didn't fall by itself. Something made it fall, whether it was wind or it was cut down, or whatever. That's what the Force is like. It doesn't do evil deeds unless it is made to do so. That's why it is neither good nor evil. Dark side, light side, it's just a perception of how people use the Force. A Perseption. Period.

[MasterJediConsular]

What he said.

[Dark_Raven]

Embrace the dark side.

 

passion = bad

emotions = bad

 

Jedi would prefer you to be an unemotional human droid. Dark siders embrace what humans are, emotionally charged beings.

[seejai]

i just dont like lying or being mean to ppl (leave me alone....)

[seejai]

ok i just read the thing and i get wat ur saying... bc ive always basically agreed with grand admiral thrawn bc if u have a whole galaxy some sort total control is kind of needed and it seems that if u have to kill ppl to get to that it may save ppl in the long run. in our world it prolly wouldnt work but with that many ppl trying to be united. i definately think u need emotions... but self control too (im a grey sort of person)

[MasterJediConsular]

ok i just read the thing and i get wat ur saying... bc ive always basically agreed with grand admiral thrawn bc if u have a whole galaxy some sort total control is kind of needed and it  seems that if u have to kill ppl to get to that it may save ppl in the long run. in our world it prolly wouldnt work but with that many ppl trying to be united. i definately think u need emotions... but self control too (im a grey sort of person)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Umm. Correct me if I'm wrong... but isn't that kind of a dicatorship?

Wasn't the detriment of that kind of rule one of the main themes of the SW movies?

[Weiser_Cain]

Skin issues

[MasterJediConsular]

Skin issues

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

[Sionn]

Screw the Force,theJedi,And the Sith.

 

 

Bounty Hunters FTW!!!

[Xard]

Meh, you all forget one thing: SW is fairytale world, there is PURE EVIL which is DS and PURE GOOD which is LS. That's why arguing DS is not evil is ridiculous.

[seejai]

i believe u can get it done without total dictator ship

[Xard]

WTF?

 

What "it"?

[seejai]

sry i was reffering to my earlier post saying that i agree with the dark side politically to some amount and someone was like thats dictatorship butttttt i think some kind of order (if ur trying to unite trillions of ppl) is needed. and it can be done without total dictatorship.

[Chinnan the fool]

Being ruled by ones emotions such as fear, anger and hate can lead to evil and in many cases it does.

The Dark Siders are cruel, greedy, selfish and lack mercy, all which are things of evil.

The Dark Siders think nothing of destroying a whole world and killing millions for no good reason at all, this is evil.

Followers of the Dark Side torture and harm people and feel no regret, this is evil.

Those who follow the Dark Side think nothing of manipulating and controlling people to do things which they do not want to do or which goes against their nature or code of honor.

 

Good and evil are not a point of view, but real concepts.

Even if a person considers an evil act not to be evil it still is an evil act.

How can the Dark Side be anything other than evil when it promotes harming living beings and seeking domination over sentients?

[Rosbjerg]

let's not argue methods .. "Good" people toture as well .. they kill as well and equally hurt - the tools of war, death and misery is used on all fronts..

 

and we are still arguing Christian morality .. as in self-sacrifice = good .. and using this terminology we are all bad/evil sinners..

 

one of the real question (imo) is .. does the end justify the means?

 

---

 

I kinda agree with you Nightshade .. but I don't understand your point - SW is not some universal truth, the characters are as black/white as the universe they inhabit.. they are evil and good because they are constructed that way.. your perception is just as false as that which you attack.. since you are trying to cramp reality* into SW - where it doesn't belong..

 

(* meaning your reality)

Edited November 26, 2006 by Rosbjerg

[SamuraiGaijin]

I believe the point of the first point is ... "the force" is neither inherently good or evil.

 

There are some powers or techniques of using the force that are ... healing = good, injuring others = evil ... seeing Luke use force choke on the gamorreans in Jabba's palace, for example, made me wonder where he learned that (probably not from Yoda).

 

Those that embrace the "dark side of the force" do not restrict themselves in wielding the force to increase their own power and inflict harm on others ... Jedi, on the other hand, use the force selflessly.

[Rosbjerg]

and what's the point - of pointing that out? - which was my question..

 

again methods are inert - it's how you use them that that determins turns the wheels of morality and perception (along with the context).. if I pull a gun and kill some random person it would be considered evil .. but if I killed someone who just raped a 10 year old girl - I imagine a whole lot of people would consider it just - even if, from a perspective of common morality, it's wrong to kill!

the situation is essentially the same - I kill a person .. but the context determins the perspective .. DN just pointed out that the gun itself is not evil.. I'm just wondering why that was worth pointing out?

[Plano Skywalker]

the Force is a metaphor for religion. it is not religion itself. if it was, I suspect it would most resemble what Wiccans believe which is, essentially, pantheism.

 

in Christianity, God is detached from creation. God establishes absolutes. in a pantheistic religion, one would suspect that there aren't as many absolutes, more shades of grey.

 

the problem arises when someone takes the Force literally. if it is pantheism, why doesn't it act like pantheism? because it is not...it is a metaphor based (I suspect) on Lucas's Christian upbringing.

[Rosbjerg]

I absolutly agree.. Jedis are selfsacrifising and pacifistic - like any good Christian is supposed to be.. and the evils in SW are like the evils in Christianity - Greed, selfishness, lust for power and the disbelief of established authority and creed..

[Deadly_Nightshade]

I'm just wondering why that was worth pointing out?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I just thought it was worth saying, although I'm having secound thoughts about that fact at the moment... :">

[Rosbjerg]

I just thought it was worth saying, although I'm having secound thoughts about that fact at the moment... :">

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

well - it did spin off an interesting discussion (imo) - so even if it wasn't what you intended, it still served a purpose..

[Gorgon]

I always thougth the whole light side/dark side was a question of the force manipulating your emotions and making you act according to them. The light side reject their emotions and resist their influence through meditation. The dark side embrace them. But, inexplicably, their emotions always seems to lead them towards egotism rather than altruism. A bit of a flaw in the terminology.

Edited November 27, 2006 by Gorgon

[Rosbjerg]

maybe those who are corrupted by the force is actually just corrupted by themselves.. as they gain more power they get more afraid of losing it, and greedy .. more emotional as that increases their power - and all of a sudden, they are completly lost in themselves.. and the darker parts of human natur.. (at least darker in SW terminology)

 

When it comes to the physical manifestation my theory falls short.. as this is, to some degree, a clear sign of The Force's ability to corrupt.

 

But in the whole of the SW universe you have seen Grey Jedis who, while still following their emotions, does not succumbed to total egoism.

[Jorian Drake]

i believe u can get it done without total dictator ship

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

and people can flee with citizen ship ^_^

[Guest The Architect]

The way I see it, no Force power is inherently dark or light. I think that it fully depends on how and for what one uses that power for. Whether someone is good or evil depends upon the willpower, the mental ability and the maturity of the individual, not what side of the Force he/she chooses and uses.

 

What I hate about the Jedi code is "There is no emotion, there is peace." That is the dumbest teaching I have ever heard. It is the biggest reason why many Jedi fall to the dark side in the first place.

 

The teachings of the Jedi and the Sith both suck if you ask me! In K3, I want the option to walk neither path and form a Mandalorian/HK-Army that will crush both the Jedi and the Sith that is left by the end of K2.