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Posted

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/6130296.stm

 

Donald Rumsfeld has been chucked out of the Pentagon! Outbloodystanding, as far as I'm concerned. I'm not saying he was a fool, but he misunderstood many of the problems, encouraged simplistic approaches in the field, and had skewed US military procurement.

"It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"."

             -Elwood Blues

 

tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp.

Posted

I say he was a warmonger, plain and simple.

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Posted

Warmonger with cheese?

"It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"."

             -Elwood Blues

 

tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp.

Posted
I say he was a warmonger, plain and simple.

 

:'( I know

 

He will be missed.

 

No one could kill people, Americans and otherwise, like Rummy. Remember those secret prisons and torturing prisoners? Where have the good times gone.

Posted

all those problems existed looooong before rumsfeld. the new era of journalism simply found it out. i wouldn't call rummy a war-monger, either. his goal was a small, light, and fast military. i.e., he wanted as few troops as possible in iraq. unfortunately, i think we needed to be a HUGE presence early on to discourage the so-called "insurgency" from neighboring countries and from within the various opposing clans in iraq itself. lessons learned that i hope we don't forget.

 

taks

comrade taks... just because.

Posted
we needed to be a HUGE presence early on to discourage the so-called "insurgency" from neighboring countries and from within the various opposing clans in iraq itself.  lessons learned that i hope we don't forget.

 

Why? We apparently didn't learn similar lessons from Nam?

Posted
we needed to be a HUGE presence early on to discourage the so-called "insurgency" from neighboring countries and from within the various opposing clans in iraq itself.  lessons learned that i hope we don't forget.

 

Why? We apparently didn't learn similar lessons from Nam?

 

Nam started off small, too, then it became a situation of escalating commitment. The same thing would happen now (probably) if we sent more troops to Iraq.

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

 

- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

 

"I have also been slowly coming to the realisation that knowledge and happiness are not necessarily coincident, and quite often mutually exclusive" - meta

Posted

About freaking time.

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Posted
Why? We apparently didn't learn similar lessons from Nam?

actually, we suffered the same problem then as now with iraq. they went in piecemeal rather than all out assault. the presence in nam was certainly larger, but we were also up against a much larger force backed by a real military.

 

taks

comrade taks... just because.

Posted
Ya.....that's my point  :D

the way it was originally phrased gave me the impression of "why huge?", which is what i was referring to. but yes, we did not learn. we needed to have a large presence early. it will not help, IMO, now.

 

taks

comrade taks... just because.

Posted

my guess? he lost in a power struggle to Condi and Cheney.... now we need one of those two to come out on top so we can get one of em out.

Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition!

 

Kevin Butler will awesome your face off.

Posted
Ya.....that's my point  :D

the way it was originally phrased gave me the impression of "why huge?", which is what i was referring to. but yes, we did not learn. we needed to have a large presence early. it will not help, IMO, now.

 

taks

 

 

what you didnt learn was that it's stupid and useless to "liberate" a nation on the other side of the globe.

Posted

I don't think it's that as much as it is just a failure of leadership on his part. I for one am glad to see he's gone. I never liked what he was trying to do with the military.

Posted
what you didnt learn was that it's stupid and useless to "liberate" a nation on the other side of the globe.

ok, i suppose you're entitled to your opinion. it's not like the US has cornered the market on this idea. the only difference between us and everyone else is that most countries in need of "liberation" just happen to be on the other side of the globe. europe and asia only have to walk next door. i suppose you could argue that much of south america is in need of liberation, but realistically, nobody really cares.

 

taks

comrade taks... just because.

Posted

It's easy to decry the excesses of Imperialism whilst living in a country with 5 million people next door to Russia ... ;)"

OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS

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OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT

Posted (edited)

Interesting point raised on Newsnight. If had Donald Rumsfeld had been given the boot well before the mid-terms, the Republicans may not have suffered so much. The reasoning being that it may have been seen a fresh start for the Bush administration.

 

Btw, politically astute yanks, has a vice president ever been "forced to resign"?

Edited by Surreptishus
Posted
Apparently though he had offered his resignation more than once before, but Bush had refused him.

 

I know, so then it could be said Bush shot himself in the foot (duh) by clinging to Rumsfeld. All those jobless Republicans have someone to be mad at now.

Posted
Btw, politically astute yanks, has a vice president ever been "forced to resign"?

dunno. i'm not sure anyone has the authority to really "fire" a VP, though i'm sure pressure from the party could easily result in a forced resignation. back in the early days, the VP was actually elected separately, which caused many issues.

 

realistically, it does not matter. the VP is a figurehead only. he has zero official power.

 

taks

comrade taks... just because.

Posted

i don't expect many differences except with iraq and that would be primarily because of gates vs. rummy.

 

taks

comrade taks... just because.

Posted
Btw, politically astute yanks, has a vice president ever been "forced to resign"?

dunno. i'm not sure anyone has the authority to really "fire" a VP, though i'm sure pressure from the party could easily result in a forced resignation. back in the early days, the VP was actually elected separately, which caused many issues.

 

realistically, it does not matter. the VP is a figurehead only. he has zero official power.

 

taks

techically your wrong... in the early days the VP was the runner up in the populatiry contest we call presidential elections.

 

:joy: I corrected Taks!

Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition!

 

Kevin Butler will awesome your face off.

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