KotoR 3: Ideas, Suggestions, Discussion

[Dark Wastl]

I'd say if someone goes searching for Revan, it has to be the Exile. You can't just send some random Jedi, no matter how talented, on such a mission. Kreia pretty much tells the Exile that he has to go and help Revan.

 

She taught him all she could and he is better suited than anyone else, not to mention that he has a connection to Revan, something only a very selected few have. None of those can make the trip, just like no new Jedi-character could. A new Jedi-character doesn't know Revan and isn't prepared to take on the Sith on his own. Sending someone who has no experience in fighting Sith is not exactly the best choice for a mission into unknown space and enemy territory.

 

Of course, you could always use a Jedi who spent years in hiding and is already quite old, but then you would need a reason why this Jedi dis- and reappeared. Not to mention that there isn't all that much potential in a fully trained Jedi.

Edited October 30, 2006 by Dark Wastl

[DAWUSS]

Atris and the Disciple can manage the Jedi Order

[Plano Skywalker]

I'd say if someone goes searching for Revan, it has to be the Exile. You can't just send some random Jedi, no matter how talented, on such a mission. Kreia pretty much tells the Exile that he has to go and help Revan.

 

She taught him all she could and he is better suited than anyone else, not to mention that he has a connection to Revan, something only a very selected few have. None of those can make the trip, just like no new Jedi-character could. A new Jedi-character doesn't know Revan and isn't prepared to take on the Sith on his own. Sending someone who has no experience in fighting Sith is not exactly the best choice for a mission into unknown space and enemy territory.

 

Of course, you could always use a Jedi who spent years in hiding and is already quite old, but then you would need a reason why this Jedi dis- and reappeared. Not to mention that there isn't all that much potential in a fully trained Jedi.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

ahhh, but that is the beauty of it. the PC does not start off as a fully-trained Jedi who has amnesia or is a bit rusty. (this is NOT flame bait) Use Fable-style story progression, at least until the PC reaches about age 25, then no more rapid aging.

 

this Jedi, who was trained by someone like Vrook as a Youngling and has already seen real combat (which is handled in the rapid-aging section of the game), is also something of a prodigy (yes, we need to get away from that but not in this story arc)...in fact, he is a distant cousin of Revan (helps explain his eagerness to help and also why he is a Force prodigy).

 

also, a hard-coded Exile could be a controllable squad leader during much of the endgame....K3 has to be multithreaded in order to give everybody enough closure.

 

Revan is a storytelling device and cannot be controllable....ain't gonna happen.

[Bass-GameMaster]

I'd say if someone goes searching for Revan, it has to be the Exile. You can't just send some random Jedi, no matter how talented, on such a mission. Kreia pretty much tells the Exile that he has to go and help Revan.

 

She taught him all she could and he is better suited than anyone else, not to mention that he has a connection to Revan, something only a very selected few have. None of those can make the trip, just like no new Jedi-character could. A new Jedi-character doesn't know Revan and isn't prepared to take on the Sith on his own. Sending someone who has no experience in fighting Sith is not exactly the best choice for a mission into unknown space and enemy territory.

 

Of course, you could always use a Jedi who spent years in hiding and is already quite old, but then you would need a reason why this Jedi dis- and reappeared. Not to mention that there isn't all that much potential in a fully trained Jedi.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

ahhh, but that is the beauty of it. the PC does not start off as a fully-trained Jedi who has amnesia or is a bit rusty. (this is NOT flame bait) Use Fable-style story progression, at least until the PC reaches about age 25, then no more rapid aging.

 

this Jedi, who was trained by someone like Vrook as a Youngling and has already seen real combat (which is handled in the rapid-aging section of the game), is also something of a prodigy (yes, we need to get away from that but not in this story arc)...in fact, he is a distant cousin of Revan (helps explain his eagerness to help and also why he is a Force prodigy).

 

also, a hard-coded Exile could be a controllable squad leader during much of the endgame....K3 has to be multithreaded in order to give everybody enough closure.

 

Revan is a storytelling device and cannot be controllable....ain't gonna happen.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Im hearing these good ideas and conversations but if u read what i posted (some of it is incorect because of the feelings of most of u about exile and revan)it says atton,bao-Dur,bastilla,mira,atris and diciple are all in the council and mira and atton are trainers.

[Guest The Architect]

Atris and the Disciple can manage the Jedi Order

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No. For a start, the Exile could have killed Atris (and it is not decided by the Exile's alignment) so I think it's best just to leave her out of the game. If Atris was not killed by the Exile, then one can safely assume that the holocrons killed her, since they do not abide failure.

 

KotOR III can't waste time on trying to bring back characters who's fates are not decided by Revan and the Exile's genders and alignments. So characters such as Juhani, Yuthura Ban, Dustil Onasi and Atris should stay the hell away from KotOR III. You need to think about the devs more and take these sought of things into consideration.

 

And I think to make things easier, if you set the Exile as male, just kill the Disciple off and if you set the Exile as a DSF, then obviously the Disciple is no Jedi and wouldn't be involved in the rebuilding of the new Jedi Order.

 

Im hearing these good ideas and conversations but if u read what i posted (some of it is incorect because of the feelings of most of u about exile and revan)it says atton,bao-Dur,bastilla,mira,atris and diciple are all in the council and mira and atton are trainers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Lets take a look here...

 

Bastila: She could have been killed by LS Revan in KotOR and she can also be DS. For me, there are too many variables to make Bastila as a 'leader of the new Jedi Order' figure, especially considering the fact that DS Bastila goes off to search for Revan, which IMO suggests that LS Bastila (if alive) will also go off and search for Revan eventually and therefore will not be around to play a role in the rebuilding of a new Jedi or Sith Order...

 

Mira: LS Exile = Yes, DS Exile = No...

 

Atris: Read my reply to DAWUSS. She should be dead...

 

Atton: I suppose if you set the Exile as LS, Atton could be a member of the new Jedi Order, but yet again, perhaps not. I have to agree with Terranova that I can't imagine Atton spouting the Jedi code/teachings, even though I made him as a member of the new Jedi Order in my own plot so far (only if the Exile is set as LS). But he certainly wouldn't be a Jedi if the Exile is set as DS.

 

Bao-Dur: LS Exile = Yes, DS Exile = No. Simple...

 

Disciple: Read my reply to DAWUSS...

 

I know that KOTOR II made it look like Exile was on his way to the Unknown Regions to find Revan.  Still, that doesn't have to happen immediately.

 

Now that Vandar, Zhar, and Vrook are all gone, the Council needs a strong leader.  I think the hard-coded, LS, female Exile would be a prime candidate to be the new leader of the Order and to help rebuild it.

 

Since the Exile has so many duties to tend to on Coruscant (and doing a lot of travelling between Coruscant and Dantooine), she needs to send someone else to find Revan...someone strong in the Force...someone she can send long-distance empathic messages to  .  But she also knows of a good pilot and astromech droid that would be helpful in such a search.  And, thank the Maker, she even has a suitable ship for the voyage!

 

Seriously, I think Exile is the key to K3 but that Exile does not actually make the trip to the Unknown Regions.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I disagree Plano. The Exile should NOT be a hard-coded, fixed character. We should be able to choose the genders and alignments of both Revan and the Exile. I have said this many times before. And I also think that as soon as the Exile leaves Malachor V, he/she should begin the search for Revan in the unknown regions.

Edited October 31, 2006 by The Architect

[Krookie]

The Exile would probably want to grab a soda at 7/11 or something before he left for the Unknown Regions.

[Guest The Architect]

The Exile would probably want to grab a soda at 7/11 or something before he left for the Unknown Regions.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Edited October 31, 2006 by The Architect

[leesmachine]

The 1st MUST HAVE is hooded robes where you can actually choose to put the hood on or off!

 

The 2nd MUST HAVE is a Lightsaber at the START of the game!!!!

Doesn't everybody want to start their adsventure with the BEST weapon ever created?

 

The 3rd MUST HAVE is Carth, Atton and previous characters as party members during the course of the game. Having a choice of over 20 characters (after aquiring them all) would be awesome, each being able to become a Jedi themselves, after certain circumstances have be fulfilled.

 

The Influence system used in KOTOR II was kinda hard to get all of your characters into Jedis...eg:

Your a darkside character trying to get Bao Dur into a Jedi, it's pretty much impossible. I know I tried it.

 

The option to either ask them or Force Pursuade them (Darkside) to become a Jedi might be alright ofcourse, after the certain circumstances have been complete.

 

That's about it for now can't wait for KOTOR III, hope to see it sometime in '07

 

Leesmachine

[Bastilla_Skywalker]

Someone e-mailed Obsidian about KotOR III, but the decision looks like its in limbo, here is what Feargus Urquhart had to say:

 

 

Hi,

 

I'll forward this to Chris Avellone who is one of the other owners of Obsidian and was also the Lead Designer on KotOR II. As for whether KotOR III is going to get done and will it be done by us - I don't really have any good or bad information. I can tell you we are not working on it as of right now and we are not in talks with LucasArts to do it. LucasArts may have another developer working on it, but equally possible, they may not. To get more information, you might want to contact them. Oh, and we would jump at the chance to do it and believe it would be an amazing product to work on.

 

Lastly, thanks for your thoughts on KotOR II - those are always appreciated.

 

Sincerely,

 

Feargus Urquhart

CEO

Obsidian Entertainment, Inc.

 

Clickie yeah

[Plano Skywalker]

I used to think Bastila should be a controllable character (in addition to the PC) in a multithreaded endgame. But the more I think about it, I do believe Exile would be best in this role as, shall we say, "coprotagonist".

 

As to hard-coding, well, I think we should be given the chance to determine Revan's appearance and voice pattern early in the game. However, it would be really awkward if we were able to do that to 2 different characters besides the PC...I mean, really awkward. Revan, of course, is hard-coded as well (in the EU)but just not very well fleshed-out. I don't think Revan should be hard-coded in K3 but I see no reason why the Exile couldn't be. Most KOTOR fandom is fixated on Revan more than Exile anyway.

 

At any rate, I really don't see any way around a new protagonist for K3 and, if they do that, I definitely think Fable-style rapid aging is the way to go (not for the entire game, just until you have to take your Jedi or Sith Trials)....we need to be able to choose our own backstory, including homeworld, social class, the whole bit and not just be ambushed with it as the game progresses.

[Guest The Architect]

I don't think Revan should be hard-coded in K3 but I see no reason why the Exile couldn't be.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You don't see why? Umm...put it this way. I don't want the game telling me what the Exile's gender, alignment, appearence, class etc are, I want to tell the game that! What the hell is the point of spending what...30-80 hours building up your character in a CRPG, only to have the game go "Sorry. This is what the Exile did, said, looks like and all that crap."

 

You're just bulldozing all over the players choices and are destroying the whole point of KotOR II, not to mention destroying the players character that he/she spent hours building! I don't care if the canon Exile is a LSF. Sure, use the canon Exile as references for authors and use her in comic books, novels etc but when it comes to the games, the canon Exile can **** off and burn, because in the games, the Exile is my Exile!

 

So sorry Plano, but I couldn't disagree with you more on this one...

 

Someone e-mailed Obsidian about KotOR III, but the decision looks like its in limbo, here is what Feargus Urquhart had to say:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That was me. I didn't ask if they were making KotOR III or not (like that hasn't been asked a million times ) I asked 'if' they did make KotOR III whether Chris Avellone would finish the story-archs of Revan and the Exile and focus on the 'True Sith' and so on (like I hope) or move on to a completely new story that has nothing to do with Revan, the Exile and the 'True Sith' (which I hope not).

Edited November 1, 2006 by The Architect

[Plano Skywalker]

I understand, Architect, but it is all about salvaging a messed up situation.

Ideally, KOTOR would have been designed as a proper trilogy (you know, something about SW and trilogies...kinda fits) but it was not. They really did not know how well K1 would sell and so they "left room" in the story.

 

So now we have a situation in which at least half of KOTOR fandom (it would seem) wants to learn more about Revan but also would like him to be flexible in the games (with regard to gender, appearance, etc).

 

K2 is highly regarded by RPGers and, well, Exile is just not the fan favorite that Revan is.

 

We've already discussed the downside of a hard-coded Exile in K3. Now let us take a look at the other unsavory possibilities:

 

--- Revan is used as an elusive plot device but is not seen and gets no resolution in K3. ---

 

this is actually the path of least resistance...turn KOTOR into Charlie's Angels with Revan as Charlie (never see him but he is always pulling the strings in the background). while the designer/publisher might be tempted to do this, this would SUCK for anyone who actually cares about the story arc we are in now. the True Sith become little more than the bandits of the week....please devs, do NOT go this route even though it appears to be the path of least resistance.

 

 

--- have either Revan or Exile be the PC ---

 

this, of course, is the hard-core fanboy's dream. it is also absolutely impractical using the d20 system (which, one would assume, they would use for K3). either Revan or Exile would just be too powerful for any kind of challenging gameplay and story-based deleveling would be impractical since it has already been done for both characters.

 

 

--- new protagonist as PC ---

 

yes, 3 is a crowd. Three protagonists is too many. UNLESS the others are indisposed. Well, in order to have them indisposed, they need to be doing something. It is one thing to be "desperately seeking Revan" in the Unknown Regions but looking for both is impractical. Exile needs to have a reason why he is not going on the mission himself....being the new head of the Order is the ideal reason, IMO. Now, they could have different voice actors and such for Exile depending what you said about Exile early on in conversation but they would already be doing that (presumably) for Revan and that is just an awful lot of extra work. anyway, whether hard-coded or not, Exile needs to play a prominent role but cannot be the primary PC in K3.

 

 

think of it this way: Revan is the Holy Grail that you seek (i.e. the Star Forge), Exile is your teacher (i.e. Bastila or Kreia), you (the new PC) are the hero.

 

I like the idea of multithreaded endgames in which someone like Bastila (or, in this case, Exile) becomes a controllable squad leader (but only towards the end of the game).

[DAWUSS]

So if all 3 options sound terrible, what would you recommend?

[Plano Skywalker]

So if all 3 options sound terrible, what would you recommend?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Option 3 is the best there is....even better with hard-coded Exile...that way, Exile can have deep roots in the story.

 

but either way, my vote would be for option 3....new protagonist with a controllable Exile later in the game.

[Darth Exile]

I'd like to be able to find and use holocrons in the next game their these important objects in both the original games but you're never able to actually use one.

[Dace_Acier]

So if all 3 options sound terrible, what would you recommend?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Option 3 is the best there is....even better with hard-coded Exile...that way, Exile can have deep roots in the story.

 

but either way, my vote would be for option 3....new protagonist with a controllable Exile later in the game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah that sounds good. It also makes the most sense and it can work out well. I still dont think that the new character should be very important but mostly just be a gateway to the Revan and Exile story.

[Bastilla_Skywalker]

Someone e-mailed Obsidian about KotOR III, but the decision looks like its in limbo, here is what Feargus Urquhart had to say:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That was me. I didn't ask if they were making KotOR III or not (like that hasn't been asked a million times ) I asked 'if' they did make KotOR III whether Chris Avellone would finish the story-archs of Revan and the Exile and focus on the 'True Sith' and so on (like I hope) or move on to a completely new story that has nothing to do with Revan, the Exile and the 'True Sith' (which I hope not).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

That was me.

 

You actually got a response outta them I don't know how you did it but yeah I guess that gives us the answer for now any way. Still in linbo for a whil.e

[obitommo]

hey if architect can get at the guy at obsidian and get some answers maybe we (and i mean we the kotor comunity of which there are a lot of us) should start trying to get at this ward guy at lucas arts cause i really do think its about time we got some answers on the kotor project this is the guy we need to get at, and if enough of us get at him maybe something will happen just a though but i do think action is needed to ensure the future of kotor.

 

Cheers tommo

[Meshugger]

Someone e-mailed Obsidian about KotOR III, but the decision looks like its in limbo, here is what Feargus Urquhart had to say:

 

 

Hi,

 

I'll forward this to Chris Avellone who is one of the other owners of Obsidian and was also the Lead Designer on KotOR II. As for whether KotOR III is going to get done and will it be done by us - I don't really have any good or bad information. I can tell you we are not working on it as of right now and we are not in talks with LucasArts to do it. LucasArts may have another developer working on it, but equally possible, they may not. To get more information, you might want to contact them. Oh, and we would jump at the chance to do it and believe it would be an amazing product to work on.

 

Lastly, thanks for your thoughts on KotOR II - those are always appreciated.

 

Sincerely,

 

Feargus Urquhart

CEO

Obsidian Entertainment, Inc.

 

Clickie yeah

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, atleast Avellone and Urquhart are still very interested in making a third KotOR game, too bad that Lucasarts haven't shown any interest at all.

[Bass-GameMaster]

Someone e-mailed Obsidian about KotOR III, but the decision looks like its in limbo, here is what Feargus Urquhart had to say:

 

 

Hi,

 

I'll forward this to Chris Avellone who is one of the other owners of Obsidian and was also the Lead Designer on KotOR II. As for whether KotOR III is going to get done and will it be done by us - I don't really have any good or bad information. I can tell you we are not working on it as of right now and we are not in talks with LucasArts to do it. LucasArts may have another developer working on it, but equally possible, they may not. To get more information, you might want to contact them. Oh, and we would jump at the chance to do it and believe it would be an amazing product to work on.

 

Lastly, thanks for your thoughts on KotOR II - those are always appreciated.

 

Sincerely,

 

Feargus Urquhart

CEO

Obsidian Entertainment, Inc.

 

Clickie yeah

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, atleast Avellone and Urquhart are still very interested in making a third KotOR game, too bad that Lucasarts haven't shown any interest at all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well i know obsidian wouldnt turn down an oppoturnity to make a Kotor 3. Kotor 2 as much as haters there is out there it still made good money. And it would be cool if u could play as the exile or revan but theres a slim chance they will be who u start with because they both would probably be level 20 and higher and theres no way they can be deleveld again after both being d'leveled unless the were mind wipped or startover it being there choice. Like the posts above me revan would be who u have to find and he could be in your party. And The Exile would be a teacher because he did teach almost his whole party besides the droids and mandalore. But it would be awesome that later on after beating it with the made up character u go start as the exile and vice versa with revan to know what there doing while your doing your own things.

[vaxen83]

Maybe K3 would have a description for name something close to like Shadow of the Republic. That is, what it was able to do and what it could not do, through darkness manifest, to which Sith would capitalise on. Could be that for a start. Architect's description would likely be much more detailed about some story possibilities.

[darkalien54]

I just think KOTOR 3 will have a lot do to with finding the True Sith, and obviously be connected to both games.

 

KOTOR 1 ends as any normal action game (although it isn't) with the hero having an ending best suited to their playing style. No questions asked, the game ends, galaxy saved or not. Like Plano said, it is a very "open" ending.

 

In KOTOR 2 however, many questions were raised. KOTOR 2 ends with Kreia telling the Exile that she must go to these unknown regions, leaving behind her loved ones, just as Revan did and search for Revan. Carth at the end of the game, hints of some future story of the exile finding Revan, and reporting the Carth is following orders, just like Canderous, and perhaps Bastila too.

 

 

KOTOR 1 and KOTOR 2 all revolved around a search for something, be it the Star Forge or your revenge / redemption (through the hunt of the jedi masters) . KOTOR 3 will probably revolve around that concept, the goal of your search being either finding Revan or the Exile, or a trace of them, their path, in order to defeat the True Sith (or join them, DS ending ), or either something related to the true Sith.

 

 

Apart from that, I just think it would be awesome to FINALLY wage war, either lead it or take part in it. I was excited when I first played the Onderon Civil War since I thought that I would be fighting against hindreds of soldiers, not a maximum of 50...

 

A plot my friends and I were thinking about is that you are a new Jedi, or the Exile / Bastila's padawan, and you are recruiting an army. I just feel that KOTOR 2's LS plot of finding the Jedi Masters and reuniting them under one cause ended abruptly, either because the Exile killed them all, or because the old witch did. Many characters come back in play, such as Canderous (having reunited the Mandalorians), Carth (just like Revan asked, he has strenghtened the Republic) and of course the Jedi (you find any remnannts of them, and you unify them).

 

This war however will be at the end, since your PC, having completed the mission the Council gave him/her of finding Revan and the Exile, returns, either with the Exile, Revan or both / none, with the sole purpose of preparing the galaxy against the fury of the true Sith. You could say that Revan has awakened them, and they are aware that their plot to exploit the Republic's weakened state has been revealed.

 

To sum it all up, your task is first to build Revan's army, one that he will command, along with the Exile and yourself at his side, and together you shall launch one hell of an assault. Of course, now this just seems like Age of Empires II....

Yet the war could be external. You do not take part it in, and you continue the story's plot, doing something "behind the scenes" .

 

Some titles that could be assorted to this sort of plot:

 

KOTOR III : Shadows of the Force

KOTOR III : The Sith Awakening

[vaxen83]

I just think KOTOR 3 will have a lot do to with finding the True Sith, and obviously be connected to both games.

 

 

Apart from that, I just think it would be awesome to FINALLY wage war, either lead it or take part in it. I was excited when I first played the Onderon Civil War since I thought that I would be fighting against hindreds of soldiers, not a maximum of 50...

 

Some titles that could be assorted to this sort of plot:

 

KOTOR III : Shadows of the Force

KOTOR III : The Sith Awakening

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Fight on Onderon with soldiers of either Valku's side or the Queen's is more like a battle although it looks like a civil war of some kind. Same can be said for fight with merc leader Azkul, assuming if character fought against mercs with Dantooine military and Master Vrook. And although Nihilus's fleet looked impressively vast, there are still fleets that span numbers more than even his fleet. Possibly. Even the Republic numbers look significantly reduced than fleet sent out againt star forge. Understanding of war can vary depending on situation and whatever historical conflicts occurred before present conflict.

 

However, am of opinion that Shadows sounds like reasonable name for next game.

Edited November 5, 2006 by vaxen83

[leesmachine]

Just one more thing about KOTOR 1 & 2, of all of the Dark Jedi that you defeat only a select few actually had lightsabers in their inventory.?

 

I rekon in KOTOR III if they use a lightsaber against you, when you beat 'em you get one. That way all of your 20+ characters (hopfully) after turning them into Jedi can have a lightsaber or lightsabers.

 

And there need to be more lightsaber crystal locations, there's not enough in the previous games.

 

Leesmachine

[mr insomniac]

^ 20+ characters?? ... since some of the characters in both games were lame and/or served no real practical purpose other than taking up space on the ebon hawk, fewer but better is the answer.