Most powerful Sith in KOTOR series (spoilers???)

[The Yeti of 66]

1. Darth Traya - She's a very odd Sith Lord, but extremely powerful. She has no grasp of military like Revan and Malak did, so her influence there might be lost. However she strung along the Exile and her former students. The only person it didn't sound like she strung along was Revan, but we didn't see as much from him as from Kreia. She's also very powerful... tough old hag.

 

2. Darth Nihilus - Could drain entire planets. He was basically an ascended being, he didn't even percieve the universe as a human anymore. However he can't have the top spot as a simple lie caused his demise.

 

3. Darth Revan - Even if Kreia's motivations were odd, Revan's were moreso. Even as if you inputted dark in the beginning... Revan was a very strange Sith. Very brilliant and very powerful, but odd motivations. Also we didn't see enough of Revan to say he was higher than Traya or Nihilus.

 

4. Darth Sion - His power was pathetic compared to all the major powerhouses in Kotor 2. Nihilus and Traya could have ended him if they wished it with no troubles... I'm sure the Exile could use the technique also, but even still was able to destroy him. Revan was probably also taught ways to kill Sion. He was strong, but the fact that he was so dependant on the force didn't give him a higher spot.

 

5. Darth Malak - He's the only one left.

[Guest The Architect]

My list of most powerful Sith Lords in Kotor:

 

1. Darth Nihilus - drained an entire planet of life, if that isn't a sign of raw force power, I don't know what is. As Kreia mentioned: " It is the greatest of Sith techniques."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Kreia never says that it is the greatest of Sith techniques, where did you get this from ? This is what Kreia says regarding the power of Darth Nihilus...

 

Kreia:

Edited October 8, 2006 by The Architect

[Darth Blivion]

I think she mentions that it is the "greatest of Sith techniques" when she talks about the force draining technique specifically, not Nihilus. I know full well she doesn't mention it when you ask her about Nihilus directly. I'll confirm it within a few days.

[Xard]

She doesn't.

 

Bwhahahahaa!

[Darth Blivion]

Also, - for Nihilus - Atris mentions: "the greatest of her (Kreia) students comes to Telos".

[Xard]

Umm... no again

[Darth Blivion]

Umm... no again

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's in the game. "....the greatest of her students comes to Telos" - Atris to the Exile during or after their duel. She references Darth Nihilus as his Sith fleet descends on Telos.

 

Do some investigating next time.

[The Yeti of 66]

She says no such thing. I've played the game like 6 times and the most recent time was naught but a few days ago. She doesn't say that.

[DeathScepter]

Despite the powers of Darth Nihilus, He is no more than a fiend. A drug fiend that is addicted to his power. With that addiction, it corrupts those whom come close to him.

[Purgatorio]

It is not a sign of greatness to be ruled by base desires for power, for lust erodes ones will.

At the end Kriea says the Exile is the greatest that she trained, and she also says the Exile is not truly a Sith,... and that part is up to the player so that means nothing. If Kriea is the one that would know the most, does that mean Revan is the greatest Sith? But ambition is a sign of a failure, so that could denote some kind of weakness.

 

If the force is a metaphor of fate controlling the lives of mortals, (Jedi and Sith included), can any of them truly have any power? If Kriea in her Sith form broke from the will of the force, and was driven by her own will, then she would have the ultimate power of creating ones own fate/destiny....My head hurts.

[Calax]

In the Dark Fleet Trilogy, Luke learns an ancient Fallanasi technique, which he can use to cut himself off from the Force instantly, and also restablish connection to it instantly aswell.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dark Fleet? you refering to the Trawn series (Heir to the Empire, Dark Force Rising, Last command)?

 

Because in those he's forcibly cut off by yalismiri.

 

Edit: oh wait... your refering to the Black Fleet Crisis. Still he didn't even hear of such a technique... and even then I wouldn't put much stock in the series as the author turned the Falcon from a flying junkheap into militant pleasure yaht that could have taken on most cap ships and won.

Edited October 12, 2006 by Calax

[Guest The Architect]

I think she mentions that it is the "greatest of Sith techniques" when she talks about the force draining technique specifically, not Nihilus. I know full well she doesn't mention it when you ask her about Nihilus directly. I'll confirm it within a few days.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Also, - for Nihilus - Atris mentions: "the greatest of her (Kreia) students comes to Telos".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's in the game. "....the greatest of her students comes to Telos" - Atris to the Exile during or after their duel. She references Darth Nihilus as his Sith fleet descends on Telos.

 

Do some investigating next time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It doesn't really matter, the point I'm trying to make is that Darth Nihilus shouldn't be included on any 'most powerful Sith Lord' list because he's just a planet/life eating monster that cares nothing for the Sith/Republic/Jedi. He only cares about 'feeding his hunger'.

 

It's not like he would have just ruled the galaxy as the Dark Lord of the Sith if he succeeded in wiping out the Republic and the Jedi, he would have consumed the Sith as well, and all life, until there is nothing left to feed his hunger on.

 

Having a technique such as his which 'cannot be taught', only gained through 'experiencing its effects first hand' does not make Darth Nihilus powerful, there is no strength in the hunger he possesses and the will behind his power is a primal thing that rules him, not the other way around.

 

To determine how powerful Darth Nihilus is, you would have to go back and find out how strong in the force he was before he became this 'Lord of Hunger' weirdo and that can't be done, since no one knows who Darth Nihilus actually is. All we know is that 'he's just a man'.

Edited October 12, 2006 by The Architect

[Dark Wastl]

Well, Nihilus still controls part of the Sith and his followers seem to follow the Sith ideals quite properly, so I do think you can still call him a Sith Lord.

 

I agree though, that he isn't all that powerful. Actually, from that point of view, the Exile isn't either, nor is Sion, although to a lesser extend.

Their power doesn't come from their control of the force, what makes them powerful is their special ability. That's why Revan, Kreia and Malak are stronger, they gain their strength through the force, not out of what they are.

 

Nihilus can't use his ability against the Exile, which makes him a somewhat weak opponent (although he really wasn't supposed to be that easy, else Visas wouldn't interfere with her little speach). Without his primary power he doesn't really know what to do. He either isn't all that strong in the force, or is simply extremely confused by being shut down.

 

The Exile wasn't all that talented, either. Vrook mentions in the recording on Dantooine that he was rather average. He became powerful because he combined his only real strength (bonding) with the new ability he gained by cutting himself off the force. He has the power to beat pretty much everyone, but it isn't really "his" power.

 

Sion's advantage is that he can't die unless he wants to. He is powerful enough to beat anyone outside a selected few, else he wouldn't be in the position he is, but he wouldn't be all that dangerous if he could die.

[Xard]

Umm... no again

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's in the game. "....the greatest of her students comes to Telos" - Atris to the Exile during or after their duel. She references Darth Nihilus as his Sith fleet descends on Telos.

 

Do some investigating next time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Nah. I prefer spamming nonsense when I am bored and have nothing to do

[Dark_Raven]

Darth Nihilus was a push over. All show and no go. Someone that looked cool like him sure didn't put up much of a fight.

[DarthReliguim]

Darth Nihilus was a push over. All show and no go. Someone that looked cool like him sure didn't put up much of a fight.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because of Visas.

[Xard]

Umm... no

[Darth Blivion]

The Exile, Nihilus and Sion are powerful. The Exile is powerful because he can form force bonds with ease. At least there is some effort to explain why he's powerful, as opposed to an author simply writing that he was a prodigy or uber powerful in the force. And now Nihilus and Sion are all of a sudden not powerful? Nihilus can end lives at will, while Sion kept himself "alive" under near impossible circumstances through sheer will - not some special ability.

 

For the Exile, and Sion especially, they attained their power by choice as opposed to just being written in as uber powerful force sensitives. As for Nihilus his power exists in his ability to strip the force from force sensitives, that means anyone not-named-the Exile wouldn't stand a chance against Nihilus in a one-on-one situation.

 

Also, the Exile is talented. In the Korriban Cave vision Malak tells the Exile that: "Your master's speak well of you, of your skills in battle". That's evidence there that the Exile was indeed talented. As a student -I assume - he wasn't distinguishable from the rest of the rabble (we have to remember also that this was Vrook speaking), but as a Jedi he was certainly at par with the best of his era. I also remember Vandar giving a less biased assesment and saying: "average-student of the force, but with a unique strength".

 

The real difference between the Exile and Revan and/or Malak, is that his authors took the time to give a reason for his above average or exceptional strength in force, rather than simply say he was a prodegy which would have been less interesting.

[Xard]

The Exile, Nihilus and Sion are powerful. The Exile is powerful because he can form force bonds with ease. At least there is some effort to explain why he's powerful, as opposed to an author simply writing that he was a prodigy or uber powerful in the force. And now Nihilus and Sion are all of a sudden not powerful? Nihilus can end lives at will, while Sion kept himself "alive" under near impossible circumstances through sheer will - not some special ability.

 

For the Exile, and Sion especially, they attained their power by choice as opposed to just being written in as uber powerful force sensitives. As for Nihilus his power exists in his ability to strip the force from force sensitives, that means anyone not-named-the Exile wouldn't stand a chance against Nihilus in a one-on-one situation.

 

Also, the Exile is talented. In the Korriban Cave vision Malak tells the Exile that: "Your master's speak well of you, of your skills in battle". That's evidence there that the Exile was indeed talented. As a student -I assume - he wasn't distinguishable from the rest of the rabble (we have to remember also that this was Vrook speaking), but as a Jedi he was certainly at par with the best of his era. I also remember Vandar giving a less biased assesment and saying: "average-student of the force, but with a unique strength".

 

The real difference between the Exile and Revan and/or Malak, is that his authors took the time to give a reason for his above average or exceptional strength in force, rather than simply say he was a prodegy which would have been less interesting.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Without JCW Nihilus wold've been hunted down by mere army, droids and such. However, chaos and destruction allowed Nihilus to slip from one shadow to another and strike from there.

 

Besides, anyone who can cut themselves from the force for some time can take Nihilus in one to one combat (that Luke's weird technique). If they are capable enouhg otherwise. His "strenght" (it's nothing but a curse) is feeding on the force. It is ancient sith technique. However, there must be other ancient counter technique. Otherwise the one(s) who first found that technique would've just eaten everybody like Nihilus did, ending the world. Poison is eradicated with poison. Attack is stopped by counter-attack.

 

I believe TS knows this (as they may know Nihilus's technique) counterweapon and Revan too as he now is with them. And we don't know all the ancient knowledge Revan learned at Unknown World and Malachor V. Thus it is quite likely that Revan (and any other that would gain access to the info) could fight against creature like Nihilus.

 

That is my personal thinking since there is no K3.

 

Yet Nihilus's power is not true power. He is nothing but mad, raving beast, obsessed with his hunger.

 

Anyone with quick wit could bring Sion down (or to be more specific: his morale and will to live).

 

Exile was nothing but average jedi until Malachor V (and even after that it was not truly his "own" power, just something leeched from other persons to be annoyingly precise). His/her "unique" strengt is capability to form bonds with ease.

 

"The real difference between the Exile and Revan and/or Malak, is that his authors took the time to give a reason for his above average or exceptional strength in force, rather than simply say he was a prodegy which would have been less interesting."

 

Apparently most jedis and siths are extremely powerful just because they are. They don't need goofy bonding abilities

 

Sorry for being negative, I love and hate at the same time idea of Nihilus and whole "eating up the force" thing.

[DeathScepter]

No matter how underdeveloped, cool appearing, or uber power , Darth Nihilus really is.

 

 

He is addicted to his unique power and it makes him more of a liabitiy to the Sith in the Long term.

 

 

But He can still kick Sion's ass.

[Darth Blivion]

The Exile's Jedi Masters spoke well of his skill in battle before the Mandalorian wars. So there is evidence there, that he was already displaying his talent before the Mando wars and well before Malachor 5. His force bond in on itself, made him more than an average force user.

 

Secondly, the Exile force bonding is his "own" strength. It's his force talent, much like Bastila's battle meditation or Anakin's affinity to the force. The difference here, is that there is an overt reason why the Exile isn't like everyone else, as opposed to an author merely writing that "he's powerful and has prodigious talent.

 

To clarify what I'm saying you should consider asking and answering the following simple questions.

 

Why is the Exile powerful in the force, why does he have a strong connection to the force? He has a force bonding ability that draws force energy from the people and places around him. The contrast would be: why is Revan strong in the force? Becuase he has a strong connection to the force. But why is he strong in the force? Becuase he was born with it, but in saying that, everyone in SW IS born with some connection to the force.

 

So the reason for Revan's strength in the force doesn't extend beyond the story writers declaration, while the Exile has a reason that is traced back to his natural ability to form force bonds. They were both born with their force sensitive abilities the difference is that the reasons for the Exile's ability is defined by more than just an authors declaration or to be kinder, natural circumstance.

 

Many authors want to have an explanation for their characters prowess that goes beyond writing: "he was super strong because he was naturally super strong."

 

That's why Superman's powers come from absorption of yellow sun radiation by his body cells. Dark Seid's super powers are related to his planet's proximity to The Source (an entity that contains the essence of creation). Vandal Savage is immortal because of a mutation he acquired from a meteor etc etc Just having super strong characters that have no underlying reason for their superior strength just seems like lazy story telling to me.

[Xard]

"The Exile's Jedi Masters spoke well of his skill in battle before the Mandalorian wars. So there is evidence there, that he was already displaying his talent before the Mando wars and well before Malachor 5. His force bond in on itself, made him more than an average force user."

 

Still nothing special. I remember Malak saying same kind of things to other members of that vision.

 

"Secondly, the Exile force bonding is his "own" strength. It's his force talent, much like Bastila's battle meditation or Anakin's affinity to the force. The difference here, is that there is an overt reason why the Exile isn't like everyone else, as opposed to an author merely writing that "he's powerful and has prodigious talent."

 

It actually have no use until Malachor V. As weapon I mean.

[Darth Blivion]

Still nothing special. I remember Malak saying same kind of things to other members of that vision.

 

He didn't speak to anyone but the Exile in that vision, so you're wrong here. The Exile was on par with the best Jedi of his era. That's what he was written to be. It's like saying Han Solo is nothing special as far as smugglers go. Of course he was special, he's the only smuggler (besides Lando) in the OT.

 

It actually have no use until Malachor V. As weapon I mean.

 

What do you mean as a weapon? It only becomes a direct weapon when the Exile goes dark side, otherwise it (the force bond)always fanctioned as a "force magnet", drawing force energy from the Exile's surroundings. It was used to strengthen the resolve of the Exile's soldiers allowing them to perform daring feats during the Mando Wars. Even as a padawan, Master Vander seems to recognize this ability within the Exile, when he mentions he has a unique strength.

[Purgatorio]

Darth Blivion

"What do you mean as a weapon? It only becomes a direct weapon when the Exile goes dark side, otherwise it (the force bond)always functioned as a "force magnet", drawing force energy from the Exile's surroundings. It was used to strengthen the resolve of the Exile's soldiers allowing them to perform daring feats during the Mando Wars. Even as a padawan, Master Vander seems to recognize this ability within the Exile, when he mentions he has a unique strength."

 

Force Crush learnt from the death of Malachore? But that was later, or perhaps his/er own innate form of battle meditation, or something similar to Inspire Followers.... I don't know, because it was said by Visas and others that it is not something born from the force, but who you are, a natural leader (or something along those lines)...but that would only work if the Exile was not touched by the force. Perhaps a natural empath.

 

 

I don't agree with the idea of the Exile as a sponge. As much as I can recall, She/he only does that if killing the Masters. As for the increases in power, I think it is learnt not sucked. The only time the bonding, in the way of sapping the will of the crew, (like how Nihilus does with his slaves) is with Hanharr, which is also optional. The Masters aren't all knowing, I got the impression that they mistook the echo in the Exile to be what was killing the Jedi ie: the same as Nihilus. I think their theory was biased by the fear of their own deaths, and lack of knowledge.

 

Of course just because the Force Sucky Kill (it has no name) Power is not used does not mean it's not there.

[Darth Blivion]

It doesn't really matter, the point I'm trying to make is that Darth Nihilus shouldn't be included on any 'most powerful Sith Lord' list because he's just a planet/life eating monster that cares nothing for the Sith/Republic/Jedi. He only cares about 'feeding his hunger'.

 

It's not like he would have just ruled the galaxy as the Dark Lord of the Sith if he succeeded in wiping out the Republic and the Jedi, he would have consumed the Sith as well, and all life, until there is nothing left to feed his hunger on.

 

Having a technique such as his which 'cannot be taught', only gained through 'experiencing its effects first hand' does not make Darth Nihilus powerful, there is no strength in the hunger he possesses and the will behind his power is a primal thing that rules him, not the other way around.

 

To determine how powerful Darth Nihilus is, you would have to go back and find out how strong in the force he was before he became this 'Lord of Hunger' weirdo and that can't be done, since no one knows who Darth Nihilus actually is. All we know is that 'he's just a man'.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The force is what consumes him or precisely, the need to overcome the restrictions the dark side has placed upon him i.e. he will die and be consumed by the dark energies he sought to attain. In many ways I think Nihilus is very much in control of his 'hunger'. What you have to remember is that it is constantly trying to kill him, his "hunger" - as Kreia mentioned - is a primal thing, but Nihilus is not. The leeching serves as a means to keep the 'hunger' from consuming him.

 

Nihilus remains a Sith Lord as is evident in the following link. http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/preview.p...heid=13-457&p=3 Pretty much shoots down your argument. And Nihilus cares only for himself and Visas (his apprentice), which is pretty much how Sith are expected to be: selfish.