metadigital Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Dancing for Jesus "It was a classic clash of cultures. The gaming establishment and its audience treat Christian game publishers as bizarre outsiders, aliens from another world where people use the word 'spirituality' in a serious sense. While the 'Are games art?' debate rages endlessly in 'our' circles, these same outsiders seek to make games that are spiritually enriching. Disagree with their conviction all you like, but few publishers seek enlightenment in addition to fabulous cash prizes." OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astr0creep Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 I only read your pasting Meta. As a gamer, I don't care if a game was made by Christians trying to make me more religious or whatever. I only care about how much fun I'm going to have with their game and if I have my money's worth, which is a very relative thing. Having fun with a game, for me, includes how much I appreciate the gameplay, the grapphics, the sounds, the music, the colors, the animations, the voice work, the story, etc. It's a combination of things. Like ingredients in food, some taste good, others are bad but the important thing is how it tastes once finished. Are games art? I really believe so but only as much as movies or even television scripted shows are art. And their main function is to make money, not make you cry with some artsy message about the fall of society and love or something. In any case, I don't think anyone can disagree with the fact that, at the very least, games contain art. http://entertainmentandbeyond.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirottu Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Are games art? I really believe so but only as much as movies or even television scripted shows are art. And their main function is to make money, not make you cry with some artsy message about the fall of society and love or something. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think it This post is not to be enjoyed, discussed, or referenced on company time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 As for the Christian game makers, as long as the game is fun and I am not being preached at with useless dogma then all is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astr0creep Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 As for the Christian game makers, as long as the game is fun and I am not being preached at with useless dogma then all is good. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Aren't you being preached useless dogma when playing a Paladin of Helm in D&D games? http://entertainmentandbeyond.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zagor Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 (edited) As a former art student I have thought about this a lot: what is art? IMO anything can be art, as long as someone think it is art (can be the viewer or the creator) There has been art exhibitions with paintings made of blood and even sh**, and it has been called art. And it is art, because people think it is. Someone (don't remember the name) put grease in a corner of a art-exhibition-place, and called it corner of grease, and it was art. I don't think it was good art, but it was art. Andy Warhol made photos of soup-canisters, and it was art. So are games art? If you think it's art, then it's art (for you). It's all in the eyes of the beholder (or the creator) Edited September 27, 2006 by Zagor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 (edited) Aren't you being preached useless dogma when playing a Paladin of Helm in D&D games? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's role playing and part of the game, therefore not useless. Edited September 27, 2006 by Judge Hades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astr0creep Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 (edited) Aren't you being preached useless dogma when playing a Paladin of Helm in D&D games? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's role playing and part of the game, therefore not useless. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What is the difference between a God made up for a D&D world and a God made up for our world? Edited September 27, 2006 by astr0creep http://entertainmentandbeyond.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musopticon? Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 The difference is that Hades hates the church. kirottu said: I was raised by polar bears. I had to fight against blood thirsty wolves and rabid penguins to get my food. Those who were too weak to survive were sent to Sweden. It has made me the man I am today. A man who craves furry hentai. So let us go and embrace the rustling smells of unseen worlds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 What is the difference between a God made up for a D&D world and a God made up for our world? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The difference is that there are people think that the God made up for our world is real and are willing to discriminate and kill others in its name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirottu Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 So... Because there are bad christian, christians shouldn This post is not to be enjoyed, discussed, or referenced on company time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkan Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Stop spinning Viscy's words. It's perfectly clear what he means. "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." - Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials "I have also been slowly coming to the realisation that knowledge and happiness are not necessarily coincident, and quite often mutually exclusive" - meta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 (edited) So... Because there are bad christian, christians shouldn Edited September 27, 2006 by Judge Hades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Yeah, its clear he means that he is a bigot. And, oh, games aren't art. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astr0creep Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 What is the difference between a God made up for a D&D world and a God made up for our world? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The difference is that there are people think that the God made up for our world is real and are willing to discriminate and kill others in its name. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That is my conclusion as well, I was just asking. To me, a game made by Christians(or Catholics, Muslims, Pagans, whatever) in which NPCs preach the word of God(or whatever), the preaching is made towards the character I'm playing and not me. I have no problem with such a game because it remains a game. Of course it is still promotion of a religion but how is that different from product placement in a Tony Hawk game or from a racing game in which a car is obviously designed like a Ferrari but called a "LightningHawk" or something? I guess my question to you is why do you take offense at being preached at... by a game? http://entertainmentandbeyond.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astr0creep Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 I guess my question to you is why do you take offense at being preached at... by a game? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I take offense being preached at, period. By game or by person, doesn't matter to me. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> But don't you get preached at playing D&D? By Clerics and Paladins mostly? http://entertainmentandbeyond.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Um... no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astr0creep Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Um... no. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ok, that settles it then. http://entertainmentandbeyond.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musopticon? Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Yeah, wasn't this an art thread? kirottu said: I was raised by polar bears. I had to fight against blood thirsty wolves and rabid penguins to get my food. Those who were too weak to survive were sent to Sweden. It has made me the man I am today. A man who craves furry hentai. So let us go and embrace the rustling smells of unseen worlds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Well, I think some games can be considered art while other games notso much. i ti si the eye of the beerholder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 I would say a common definition of what is art needs to be reached before the debate of whether games fit the definition can begin. An important first step that is usually overlooked in threads of this type and thus the ensuing 30 page thread is actually a debate over what art is rather than whether games are art. SO, since the defintion of art has not been agreed upon for this thread, I can't answer the question. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Art is what I was taught in art class. Games weren't. So, they aren't art. Game over. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musopticon? Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 I doubt you were taught pointillism, but it's still art. kirottu said: I was raised by polar bears. I had to fight against blood thirsty wolves and rabid penguins to get my food. Those who were too weak to survive were sent to Sweden. It has made me the man I am today. A man who craves furry hentai. So let us go and embrace the rustling smells of unseen worlds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zagor Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Anything can be art, as long as someone think it is. A bucket filled with milk can be art, if you put it on display, and say it's art. Games might not be art to Volourn, but they are still art to me, at least some of them, Planescape torment being an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Art is what I was taught in art class. Games weren't. So, they aren't art. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm not a conformist.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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