Lionheart: LotC Question...

[alanschu]

This game is why I'm really anticipating the real-time adaptation of SPECIAL by Bethesda when they release FO3. Should be pretty innovative.

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You never know, they might come up with something that works. Just because it wasn't successful with Lionheart, doesn't mean it's impossible.

[Judge Hades]

It wasn't successful in Lionheart, Fallout Tactics, or FOPOS (though FOPOS was probably SPECIAL-lite). They already tried it in two games (and a third depending on your POV) and neither worked though the real time aspects in FOT was better implemented than Lionheart.

 

As long as they put in a turn base option in FO3 they can also put in real time as well, but I have doubts that they will do that and implement it well.

 

You know though, I would love to see Fallout 3 use the Silent Storm engine. :D

Edited September 10, 2006 by Judge Hades

[kirottu]

This game is why I'm really anticipating the real-time adaptation of SPECIAL by Bethesda when they release FO3. Should be pretty innovative.

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Real time combat is hardly innovative and it has already been proven that real time and SPECIAL just do not mix.

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If you don

[Judge Hades]

That is your POV, Kirottu and that is fine. I respect that. In my point of view they have. It has been tried in several different games with different implementations and in each one the real time combat was subpar.

Edited September 10, 2006 by Judge Hades

[kirottu]

Respect

[Slowtrain]

I find it incredibly difficult to believe that FO3 will not be first person. Especially after the success of Oblivion. I also find it difficult to believe that it will use SPECIAL for any thing other than the name of its stats. Both of which are fine with me. I'd love to see a first-person Fallout. However, i do hope it would be a tad more crpg-y than Oblivion

[Llyranor]

How are past failures proof? Did POR2 and TOEE prove that DnD and TB doesn't mix?

[Nick_i_am]

Quite ignoring the fact that Deus Ex used a very SPECIAL-like system and was a realtime RTS, despite it's action elements.

[Llyranor]

True. In a way, Deus Ex was the spiritual successor to Fallout.

[Nick_i_am]

Yeah, way more than a lot of people give it credit for.

[Fionavar]

True. In a way, Deus Ex was the spiritual successor to Fallout.

 

That's a very provocative thought. I've always seen a connexion that stems from System Shock, Deus Ex and Fallout, but I never thought of it quite in this way. Thanks for that observation ... I'll have to do some reflecting about this.

[Judge Hades]

Kirottu, that pic has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. Lets stay on topic, shall we. As for Deus Ex I don't see it as anything of a sort close to Fallout/SPECIAL. That is a huge leap of logic that I just do not see. Valid as your view point is to you, I whole heartedly disagree.

[Nick_i_am]

True. In a way, Deus Ex was the spiritual successor to Fallout.

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That's a very provoking thought. I've always seen a connexion that stems from System Shock, Deus Ex and Fallout, but I never thought of it quite in this way. Thanks for that observation ... I'll have to do some reflecting about this.

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You're right about system shock too now that I think about it, many of the important elements were very similar, despite it being completely realtime.

[Llyranor]

Hmm, Bioshock should be very nice in that aspect. It may not have SPECIAL, but the system should be similar enough in its implementation.

[Judge Hades]

How so?

[Nick_i_am]

Hmm, Bioshock should be very nice in that aspect. It may not have SPECIAL, but the system should be similar enough in its implementation.

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Really looking forward to that, esspesally if they can take the original elements that made SS so great while learning further from Fallout and Deus Ex to really bring the three togeather.

[Musopticon?]

Edited September 10, 2006 by Musopticon?

[Judge Hades]

That doesn't explain a whole lot. How is Bioshock rules implementation similar to SPECIAL?

[alanschu]

Hmm, Bioshock should be very nice in that aspect. It may not have SPECIAL, but the system should be similar enough in its implementation.

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No kidding! Thinking about it a bit, doesn't the Biosphere gone awry setting kind of mimic a post-apocolyptic setting? Things have gone very bad, there's mutations going around, and people are scavenging to survive!.

[Fionavar]

As for Deus Ex I don't see it as anything of a sort close to Fallout/SPECIAL.  That is a huge leap of logic that I just do not see.  Valid as your view point is to you, I whole heartedly disagree.

 

 

I am not sure whether this was directed at me Hades? If it was, what struck me was not the mechanics of the game, to be honest, as opposed to the ... spirit ... myth ... je ne c'est quoi ... that pervades each of the stories/plots. This will take more time to articulate, but each of the stories have a depth that allows the tale to be universal - though 'sci-fi.' For me, at least, the thread between DX, FO, SS, is the plausibility that allows for the suspension of reality ... which I guess, at the end of the day, is what a good story should do.

[Slowtrain]

What made Fallout Fallout is a heck of a lot more than isometric and turn based and a rules system. To reduce it to such a mechanistic formula really diminshes the things that Fallout accomplished. Or attempted to accomplish, at least. Not saying it suceeded in everything it tried to do.

[Pop]

I don't think that F3 being isometric is out of the question, the Oblivion engine should be able to handle it (provided they made some concessions for the camera and such) A lot of people think that it's going to be The Elder Scrolls: The Road Warrior, and given the way Todd Howard talks and the way Bethesda has made games recently I suppose that's a way to look at it, but I don't see how it could be a foregone conclusion (it seems obvious to me that they'd treat Fallout differently than TES) and as I've mentioned several times in the past, Fallout is my Star Wars, and I have to hope. I really hope Bethesda retains the qualities that (I believe) made Fallout Fallout which were notably 1. A well-rounded classless system 2. A strong emphasis on consequences to PC action 3. Unusually competent writing and dialogue 4. Gallows humor and 5. 1950's "Science!". I have no doubt that they'll probably attempt the latter two, but the first three may be neglected. I don't consider the isometric perspective to be a integral part of Fallout. That's my tangent!

 

As for Deus Ex and Fallout, I kind of see it, yes.

 

Never played Lionheart (sort of want to) so I guess I shouldn't even be in this thread "

[Tigranes]

3. Unusually competent writing and dialogue

 

So they're hiring?

[Judge Hades]

What made Fallout Fallout is a heck of a lot  more than isometric and turn based and a rules system.  To reduce it to such a mechanistic formula really diminshes the things that Fallout accomplished.  Or attempted to accomplish, at least.  Not saying it suceeded in everything it tried to do.

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Yes it is, but leave those aspects out the game would no longer be Fallout as well. It is every aspect within Fallout that made it what it was. Setting, characters, rules system, and the style of which it was presented (both graphically and textually). It is the whole package that made it the best CRPG ever made.

Edited September 11, 2006 by Judge Hades

[kirottu]

Hmm, Bioshock should be very nice in that aspect. It may not have SPECIAL, but the system should be similar enough in its implementation.

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No kidding! Thinking about it a bit, doesn't the Biosphere gone awry setting kind of mimic a post-apocolyptic setting? Things have gone very bad, there's mutations going around, and people are scavenging to survive!.

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Man, that has gotten me exited in Bioshock in totally new kind of way!