Saudi Arabia

[SteveThaiBinh]

I've been in Saudi Arabia for five months now, and I wanted to share a few impressions. It's only now that I'm about to leave (only for a short break in the UK) that I can get my head together and write something. Warning: It will meander and be long.

 

I love my students, and I really enjoy working with them, though it was weird at first teaching only men (mixed education is illegal, even for adults). They're also pretty much the only Saudis I come into contact with regularly, and they're not a particularly representative cross-section of the population, so I try not to generalise from them too much. They're middle-class professionals and sons of middle-class professionals, often with family or friends in the US or Europe. They bear the scars of an attrocious public education system that's left them with no study skills and the idea that success can be achieved without effort. But they're friendly, trusting, respectful towards teachers (which is always nice if you can get it - I've taught in places where teachers rank somewhere below trolleybus drivers :D ) and occasionally even hard-working. Most of them have seen countless Hollywood movies, though they're sometimes reluctant to admit that in front of others. They're also amazingly enthusiastic about, and knowledgable about, technology, and it's given me hope then when the oil finally does run out (as one day it must) Saudi Arabia will continue to do very well in an age of technology and information.

 

That said, I just spent 90 minutes standing in the bank because the guy at the counter couldn't get the Telex machine to work. I don't think China or the US need be shaking in their shoes just yet. :D

 

Jeddah (where I live) has the reputation of being a more liberal city than Riyadh or cities to the east, and a friend who's lived all over the place confirms this. They're even planning to open a cinema here sometime in the next year or so, though I imagine there'll be a concrete wall between the women's and men's sections, and I wonder what that will do to acoustics. I've never had any trouble walking around, and people in the street are pretty friendly. There's a nice mix of nationalities - lots of Saudis of course, but also lots of Sudanese, Lebanese, Pakistanis, Egyptians and others. Despite the government's plan to 'saudi-ize' the economy as soon as possible, a lot of jobs are still done almost entirely by foreign labour.

 

I was warned before I came here that I'd be stopped a lot by the religious police, but nothing yet. I hear they used to be much stricter - there was the famous case where fifteen girls died in a school fire because the religious police (mutaween) wouldn't let them leave the building without proper clothing. But that all changed when terrorism became a problem here. The first few terrorist attacks were blamed on foreign gangs fighting turf wars over illegal alcohol production, because it was 'impossible' that Saudis could be involved in terrorism. When the government finally woke up to the extremism in their midst, they cracked down on all forms of extremism, and that included the religious police. The official mutaween were reigned in, and I don't think I've encountered a single one since I've been here. But there were always the unofficial mutaween as well: any holier-than-thou busybody could get himself a stick and go around the malls beating women who showed slightly more of their face than he thought appropriate. That's pretty much a thing of the past now, it seems.

 

This is the first foreign country where I've lived in a compound for foreigners rather than surrounded by locals. I don't like it, but I can see the security reasons behind it. What makes me laugh ( :ph34r: ) is how poorly protected our compound actually is - it's surrounded by much taller buildings, and a very easy target for snipers. Our guards are really nice guys, but I don't think they'd lay down their lives to protect me from an approaching mob and I wouldn

[Walsingham]

As expected, read in full, and greatly enjoyed.

[Gorth]

That

[SteveThaiBinh]

Isn't there something about them making up for the Ramadan by some serious celebration when it ends ? Although it wouldn't be quite the same without a few barrels of beer  :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is secondhand info as I've yet to live through it myself, but I've been told that during Ramadan people break their fast with a little snack just before heading off for sunset prayer, and when they return they have a huge meal. This is supposed to make up for the fasting during the day, but of course if you've switched day and night it's a massive breakfast and then you can eat normally for the rest of the night. Apparently, Saudis tend to put on weight during the month of Ramadan, which seems to be rather against the spirit of the thing, but there you go.

 

After the end of Ramadan, it's the Eid holidays, but I don't know what happens then. With everything here so focused around Islam, it's difficult as a non-Muslim just to go along and join in things.

[metadigital]

...

(mixed education is illegal, even for adults)

...

Most of them have seen countless Hollywood movies, though they're sometimes reluctant to admit that in front of others. 

...

Jeddah (where I live) has the reputation of being a more liberal city than Riyadh or cities to the east, and a friend who's lived all over the place confirms this.  They're even planning to open a cinema here sometime in the next year or so, though I imagine there'll be a concrete wall between the women's and men's sections, and I wonder what that will do to acoustics. 

...

I was warned before I came here that I'd be stopped a lot by the religious police ... there was the famous case where fifteen girls died in a school fire because the religious police (mutaween) wouldn't let them leave the building without proper clothing.  But that all changed when terrorism became a problem here. The first few terrorist attacks were blamed on foreign gangs fighting turf wars over illegal alcohol production, because it was 'impossible' that Saudis could be involved in terrorism.  When the government finally woke up to the extremism in their midst, they cracked down on all forms of extremism, and that included the religious police.  The official mutaween were reigned in, and I don't think I've encountered a single one since I've been here.  But there were always the unofficial mutaween as well: any holier-than-thou busybody could get himself a stick and go around the malls beating women who showed slightly more of their face than he thought appropriate.  That's pretty much a thing of the past now, it seems.

 

This is the first foreign country where I've lived in a compound for foreigners rather than surrounded by locals. 

...

I can't say I've learned a whole lot about the politics of Saudi Arabia.  It's a taboo subject,  especially for foreigners from the democratic West. 

...

The Saudi government is worried about its citizens being too obsessed with foreign affairs, particularly Palestine, Israel and Iraq, as that leaves them open to radicalization.  ... Unfortunately, the islamists did rather well in the elections

...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Saudi Arabia is actually a very repressive society, and it is not surprising (to me) that there has been such a radical response (as soon as it was able to rise): no wonder extremists like Osama bin Laden can ferment civic violence, when an autocratic family uses it's wealth to maintain an iron grip on the common people ... The more you tighten your grip, Tarquin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers ...

These lists were circulated by text message, and people were afraid of the consequences of voting against them.  So I don't know if we can expect a repeat performance any time soon.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interesting. No matter how total the dictatorship, hope and human rebellion will survive.

 

I found out the other day that the Victorians used to have up to six mail deliveries a day: the postcard was their version of the text message.

 

Still, the practitioners might be distressed to know that all the text message data can be/is stored on the central telephone servers ...

[Walsingham]

I'm not sure it always works like it does in Star Wars, Meta. At least I hope not. Pixies and I are building a death star out of old coke cans and a potato cannon.

 

It sounds to me like authoritarianism might be the only way to fight extremists in a place like this. Steve?

[Hurlshort]

Great read Steve, it sounds like you're having a fascinating time. I take a group of students to a mosque during Ramadan, and the after sunset celebration is excellent. Islam can be a very beautiful religion, they way it brings the community together every day.

[SteveThaiBinh]

It sounds to me like authoritarianism might be the only way to fight extremists in a place like this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Difficult to say. In the long run, liberal democracy is much better at controlling extremism than authoritarianism, but in the short term, the reverse seems to be true. I can see how a sudden revolution and switch to democracy would be a huge gamble and could easily be disastrous, for the Saudis and for the West, especially with the quagmire of Iraq next door ready to spill its 'freedom fighters' over the border.

 

The problem is that authoritarianism breeds extremism, because the safety valve of moderate opposition can't work properly. So it's like a drug - you need ever greater doses of it just to feel OK, and it ends up killing you.

 

Apparently, during the Saudi local elections last year, people were eager to discuss things like extending the franchise to women, allowing women to drive, and reforming government institutions to stamp out corruption. The government complained that these were not 'local' issues and shouldn't be part of the debate, but it didn't try to silence people. I think that if the House of Saud did what it's said it wants, and follows a programme of reducing repression/restrictions and phasing in some form of democracy, it would stand a reasonable chance of success.

 

Unfortunately, what the House of Saud actually wants is something else entirely.

[thepixiesrock]

As you can see, my young apprentice, your friends have failed. Now witness the firepower of this fully ARMED and OPERATIONAL battle station!

 

 

Pyoo!

 

Pyoo!

[Darth Drabek]

Very interesting read.

 

At my old job, I had a female coworker who practiced Islam. She worked during the day with the rest of us, so she couldn't use that method of circumventing the fasting rules. It was difficult, especially because we had to be on the phone a lot as part of the job - and she did it without a bottle of water or anything to keep the voice in shape. Every day she knew the exact time of sunset, and she generally had food ordered for pickup at that exact moment. She didn't ever drink alcohol either, although I think that was her choice and not dictated by the religion(?).

 

We all learned a bit about Islam by working with her. It was very impressive to see someone willing make sizable sacrifices because of their faith.

[Atreides]

Muslims aren't supposed to consume alcohol.

[Walsingham]

I do think that a period of self-denial is good for the spirit. We could use it in the West, but of course it'd never happen. In fact, isn't Lent supposed to be something similar? I seem to recall I gave up tapdancing. :">

 

I also think we could use something like the seder, before I get accused of being an islamophile.

[metadigital]

As you can see, my young apprentice, your friends have failed. Now witness the firepower of this fully ARMED and OPERATIONAL battle station!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll never turn to the dark side. You've failed.

I am a Jedi, like my father.

 

Apparently, during the Saudi local elections last year, people were eager to discuss things like extending the franchise to women, allowing women to drive, and reforming government institutions to stamp out corruption.  The government complained that these were not 'local' issues and shouldn't be part of the debate, but it didn't try to silence people. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think they should change elections: only women can vote (in a secret ballot, of course). :D