Morgoth Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 That doesn't make any sort of sense. You are starting out as a novice character, a zero, a nobody. If you already gone through 2 large scale adventures I don't thikn that would be the case. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Who said the nameless hero is starting out as a complete novice? Even in BG2, your party already had level 7 or 8. No big deal. Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Remember, Morgoth, you're arguing with the "hardcore" RPG'ers now. You know, the same people who went nuts over how Oblivion sucks because it didn't allow them to metagame the usual way they do in D&D? They actually claimed the game sucked because they "had" to metagame to be able to "maxx out their charzz".. They've learnt the D&D rules inside out and know exactly how to reroll their characters until they can dual class (or whatever it's called) into the two best combinations for total pwnage. As soon as a game comes along that doesn't follow these nerd rules their world comes crumbling down and they come to the conclusion the game must suck. Personally I couldn't care less if the "hardcore" RPG'ers on these boards like Gothic 3 or not. I just hope I will like it as much as I have liked the first two parts. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I like Oblivion. :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musopticon? Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 (edited) Wasn't the idea that you start out as a relatively powerful force and most of the stat development comes from joining the guilds and factions, not from hackn'slash as in the previous games? Minimum grinding, so to say. Edited September 6, 2006 by Musopticon? kirottu said: I was raised by polar bears. I had to fight against blood thirsty wolves and rabid penguins to get my food. Those who were too weak to survive were sent to Sweden. It has made me the man I am today. A man who craves furry hentai. So let us go and embrace the rustling smells of unseen worlds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Lest we start accusing Valve for making HL male only. Or Monolith for making NOLF only playable as Cate Archer! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> They aren't CRPGs therefore irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigranes Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 (edited) Crap, my post died due to an unfortuitous back-click. Short point is I have nothing against premade characters, and premade characters mean that it is not an arbitrary exclusion of women (or heh, black people), so there's no problem there in Gothic. The whole issue, of course, had begun with the Oblivion character pic, so I had naturally assumed that your comments regarding preferring male characters and not women running around fighting in a fantasy setting were taken on board and discussed. If you wish to renege upon that particular implication, then we can all leave happy. (you = morgoth) Edited September 6, 2006 by Tigranes Let's Play: Icewind Dale Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Icewind Dale II Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Divinity II (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG1 (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG2 (In Progress) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkreku Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Wasn't the idea that you start out as a relatively powerful force and most of the stat development comes from joining the guilds and factions, not from hackn'slash as in the previous games? Minimum grinding, so to say. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes. I think someone said the game starts by you having to fight an orc the first thing you do. Might be a rumour but it is certain that the hero is a powerful guy right from the start in Gothic 3. You will add perks to become more powerful, on top of the normal strength/dexterity advances. Swedes, go to: Spel2, for the latest game reviews in swedish! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 The funny thing is that I don't really care; I'll play whatever as long as its fun. I don't think a game needs to be a political statement. That said, I'm all for as much choice as possible when creating and developing crpg characters. But fi story or funds limit those choices,so be it. Just make the game fun! Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Lest we start accusing Valve for making HL male only. Or Monolith for making NOLF only playable as Cate Archer! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> They aren't CRPGs therefore irrelevant. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> NO!!! I'm not in the mood for your mindless bull**** today. You can't hold one subgenre of gaming to a different standard when it comes to making serious claims such as sexism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 It seems like the subject has now completely derailed. And I'm not in the mood right now to defend my point of view against 5, 6 people, because I can't write as fast as Data from Star Trek. :D No seriously, I'm pretty sure G3 is going to rock. No matter how much people try to turn my words around. Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hell Kitty Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 So you want the nameless hero having pink hair? Makes big difference in role-playing, uh huh. People like having control over what their character looks like because it allows them to make someone they feel it uniquely their own, rather than something the developer thought up. It's just a small thing that makes the game more enjoyable for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkreku Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 I'm not so sure it's going to rock, but I have it on preorder already so I'm beyond the point of no retuuuurn! Swedes, go to: Spel2, for the latest game reviews in swedish! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 NO!!! I'm not in the mood for your mindless bull**** today. You can't hold one subgenre of gaming to a different standard when it comes to making serious claims such as sexism. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> *tee hee* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 If you wish to renege upon that particular implication, then we can all leave happy. (you = morgoth) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No I'm not. I find it refreshing to play a game having no bossy, whiny or prudish woman sticking around. And no, I'm not misogynist either. I'm just too used to the style of Gothic right now, and I don't want a sudden change. Improvements in terms of gameplay, quests and all other content are welcome though, and I'm sure G3 will have plenty of them. Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musopticon? Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 (edited) Wasn't the idea that you start out as a relatively powerful force and most of the stat development comes from joining the guilds and factions, not from hackn'slash as in the previous games? Minimum grinding, so to say. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes. I think someone said the game starts by you having to fight an orc the first thing you do. Might be a rumour but it is certain that the hero is a powerful guy right from the start in Gothic 3. You will add perks to become more powerful, on top of the normal strength/dexterity advances. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> For all I care, they could just make regular wildlife(like rats and wolves and bloodflys and stuff) give minimun exp, so little that it's not worth killing'em. In previous Gothic games I frequently went to the forests just to kill snappers and wolves for a couple of hours before advancing a chapter. That's not really my idea of fun and it's defintely not roleplaying. However, if the beasties are an obstacle on the way to loot/nifty dungeons then I'm all for it. I realise that the adventurous feel of Gothic is one of it's major selling points(along with the bath tub scene), but they could really tighten the gameplay by losing some of the worthless exp hunt forest bits by making visiting them not worth your time. Hunting for fur and teeth is an exception of course. Edited September 6, 2006 by Musopticon? kirottu said: I was raised by polar bears. I had to fight against blood thirsty wolves and rabid penguins to get my food. Those who were too weak to survive were sent to Sweden. It has made me the man I am today. A man who craves furry hentai. So let us go and embrace the rustling smells of unseen worlds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 (edited) I count character creation as a part of gameplay. I don't think I can play a game nowadays that didn't have some form of character creation which allows me to create and customize my character in appearance, gender, and skills. To do so would be like going backwards. Edited September 6, 2006 by Judge Hades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaftan Barlast Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 No seriously, I'm pretty sure G3 is going to rock. No matter how much people try to turn my words around. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, thats because youre a Jerry. DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 No seriously, I'm pretty sure G3 is going to rock. No matter how much people try to turn my words around. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, thats because youre a Jerry. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What? Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigranes Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 No I'm not. I find it refreshing to play a game having no bossy, whiny or prudish woman sticking around. And no, I'm not misogynist either. I'm just too used to the style of Gothic right now, and I don't want a sudden change. Improvements in terms of gameplay, quests and all other content are welcome though, and I'm sure G3 will have plenty of them. Alright, so my understanding of your comments are confirmed. Much better position to discuss now. I take it that you are fine with having 'bossy, whiny or prudish women' (yeah, because there's no woman that's not bossy, whiny or prudish.) in other games, but just not Gothic? As I said, there is nothing wrong with having a premade character in a game, but if your argument is that RPGs in general benefit from not having women, because they are all bossy, whiny or prudish, I could say all men in RPGs are macho-gruff, try-to-be-007-cool, or I-Save-the-World-paladinish. Also a lot of them aren't really pleasing to look at. We should all play games consisting of asexual skeletons speaking Arabic. Let's Play: Icewind Dale Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Icewind Dale II Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Divinity II (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG1 (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG2 (In Progress) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 I count character creation as a part of gameplay. I don't think I can play a game nowadays that didn't have some form of character creation which allows me to create and customize my character in appearance, gender, and skills. To do so would be like going backwards. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's fine. Some would say your loss, others would agree with you. However, did you not know that Gothic 3 had a pregen before coming into this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 German. Hey, I'm part German. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musopticon? Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 It's Kaftan, that's his thing. Don't bother to take that seriously, Morgy. kirottu said: I was raised by polar bears. I had to fight against blood thirsty wolves and rabid penguins to get my food. Those who were too weak to survive were sent to Sweden. It has made me the man I am today. A man who craves furry hentai. So let us go and embrace the rustling smells of unseen worlds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 (edited) I count character creation as a part of gameplay. I don't think I can play a game nowadays that didn't have some form of character creation which allows me to create and customize my character in appearance, gender, and skills. To do so would be like going backwards. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I can understand you have a strong PnP background, but other devs shouldn't necessarily follow that path. As I said, different developer, different vision. There is no such a thing as having a strict rule how to make CRPGs. Edited September 6, 2006 by Morgoth Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 That's fine. Some would say your loss, others would agree with you. However, did you not know that Gothic 3 had a pregen before coming into this thread? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Technically... Yes, but I like discussing these sort of things. Right or wrong, it is the argument itself that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 I can understand you have a strong PnP background, but other devs shouldn't necessarily follow that path. As I said, different developer, different vision. There is no such a thing as having a strict rule how to make CRPGs. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> My PnP background is irrelevant. When I play a RPG I want to play my character. I want to be able to develop his or her personality. I want to be able to determine what he or she knows both prior and after the campaign starting point. For me to really get into a game's story I need to feel a part of it and that can only really be achieved if I can make my own character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Technically... Yes, but I like discussing these sort of things. Right or wrong, it is the argument itself that matters. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It also derails threads. If you want to talk about the merits of character creation, citing Gothic 3 as being an example of what not to do in a game because of the lack of character creation, it'd probably be best served in its own thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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