BioWare on the 'Broken' Game Industry

[Tigranes]

Hey, hey, hey, hey guys!

 

You can have jumping and height for RPG combat / strategy purposes on a 2D game!

 

One could easily have taken BG, set all flying creatures to immune melee damage (some mods do this), etc. I fail to see where jumping would be useful unless the world is built to have 'jump points' a la FFX, or the game is built towards a first person, TES/Gothic/Arx Fatalis type combat. If you want 4 people to jump somewhere it can't be very precise, it's gotta have jump points, and they are perfectly possible in a 2D world and gimmicky if done too much.

Edited August 28, 2006 by Tigranes

[Oerwinde]

I hate how people keep calling it a Z axis. X is left to right, Y is up and down, Z is back and forth. Right now most 3d games tend to mostly use the Z and X axis. I want more use of the Y axis dammit.

[alanschu]

Semantics.

 

Though it doesn't follow the current naming convention.

 

What axis does what is purely arbitrary. X and Y axes are typically the names given to the axes in two dimensional space.

 

Besides, I don't even agree with your assessment. When you're looking at a 2D game layout, the "up and down" should be relative to the monitor. Unless you're trying to tell me that viewing a cartesian plane on a monitor, you label your horizontal axis the X-Axis, and your vertical Axis the Y axis. Imagine you are looking at the gaming board from the top.

Edited August 28, 2006 by alanschu

[Morgoth]

You know, in a Postproduction software like AfterFX, the workspace is X,Y, while the depth is Z. In 3D realm, that depth would be Y.

On the other hand, 3D software like Maya uses the Y as Up-Axis as standard, as opposed to, let's say 3ds max. Und the cool thing is, you can even revert that (y-z exchange). So what's the point Oerwinde?

In the end, it's up to the developer/viewer how you want to setup the axis. There's no clear standard.

Edited August 28, 2006 by Morgoth

[metadigital]

Idiom

[Oerwinde]

You know, in a Postproduction software like AfterFX, the workspace is X,Y, while the depth is Z. In 3D realm, that depth would be Y.

On the other hand, 3D software like Maya uses the Y as Up-Axis as standard, as opposed to, let's say 3ds max. Und the cool thing is, you can even revert that (y-z exchange). So what's the point Oerwinde?

In the end, it's up to the developer/viewer how you want to setup the axis. There's no clear standard.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I use XSI, where the X and Z are horizontal and Y is vertical So thats what I'm going by.

[Judge Hades]

Too bad there aren't more CRPGs that uses the W axis. :D

[Morgoth]

Axis are snow from yesterday. I demand time traveling!

[greylord]

Jumping might actually hinder the game. Jumping is typically available in FPS games now, and one big thing people do to avoid getting shot is jumping...a LOT.

 

Now in reality, that's just stupid. Give me a rifle, and see which one will get you killed faster (Okay, I'll hit you either way, but if you jump, it's just going to slow you down and make you a better target). Better to jink and jive.

 

But if you allow jumping I'm betting you'd have people jumping all over the place as a legit way to fight.

 

I'd toss flying in that as well. Give me a rifle, and make yourself a big black target against the sky there...and you'll just be like tossing up pucks.

 

I can see how these items could be useful...but I'd much RATHER have a good game with good gameplay, a good story, and good solid playtesting prior to release than worry about whether it has the ability to jump or fly in it.

[Judge Hades]

Why the hell do people think that having Jump or Fly will make automatically make a substandard game? Greylord, don't be an idiot. Its not an either/or affair. Sheesh.

[Darque]

Jumping is only viable if you can add fatigue to it and really screw up your aim if you try to fight while doing it.

 

The way it's done in FPS games is... comical :D

[Dark_Raven]

Jumping is only viable if you can add fatigue to it and really screw up your aim if you try to fight while doing it.

 

The way it's done in FPS games is... comical :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sounds like Morrowind.

[SamuraiGaijin]

There are only so many things that an RPG developer can program into a game and maintain the simplicity required for immersion.

 

Sure, nearly every PnP RPG out there has rules for cover, high ground, flying, etc. ... but it's not necessary to incorporate them into CRPG, especially a party-based CRPG.

 

While I agree that Simulators, First Person Shooter, Squad Tactics Games, etc. need mobility in the third dimension, CPRG's don't.

 

Would I pay more for a CRPG that had jumping and flying? ... not if that were the only distingiushing feature. My guess is developers know this, and don't waste the effort on "extra" features.

[Atreides]

I think the breaking of essential story flow is more of a worry than implementing the engine. That would need to be addressed in serious discussion of the viability of the mythical Z-axis.

[Darque]

Jumping is only viable if you can add fatigue to it and really screw up your aim if you try to fight while doing it.

 

The way it's done in FPS games is... comical :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sounds like Morrowind.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Indeed it does.

[Oerwinde]

I don't want flying, thats just too hard to implement without breaking the game, though climbing, jumping, and swimming would be very welcome. Climbing alone would make rogues a lot more fun.

[Hassat Hunter]

If that would be implented it would only be active on certain points anyway (when you click the rock you wish to climb on for example); and then it can (and probably) will be seen as animation (or player transportation) instead of a whole 3rd Axis...

[Morgoth]

In Freedom Force, characters could fly. But that's because they're superheroes!

In DA however, this would only be achievable with support of a ballista. Dwarf throwing, for example, could increase tactical finesse drastically!

I think I should propose that in the Bio forums and discuss this matter maturely! Yes I should....

Edited August 29, 2006 by Morgoth

[Judge Hades]

They could use magic such as the Fly spell in DnD.

[Morgoth]

They could use magic such as the Fly spell in DnD.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good ol' magic, hmmm? No. DA is gonna have a low-magic setting, where only the most powerful have access to it. I know Dave wanted to have it very special and very critical in the setting, therefor I don't think a Dwarf could start his Mana-powered jetpack and fly around like Danny De Dito on crack!

[Judge Hades]

Mana powered Jetpack? I was talking about spells and not magic items. Low magic or not the Fly spell, at least in DnD, is a relatively low powered low level spell.

[metadigital]

Teleport Without Error for dwarven Danny De Vito-alikes to pop out of nowhere!

[Oerwinde]

I want nuclear powered rocket pants. DA better have that or I'm not buying it.

[BicycleOfDeath]

The prime of the gaming industry is over, in my opinion. There's way to much concern about pushing a product out the door in time for christmas, too many empty promises (I can think of quite a few developers & publishers who've backed down from what they said and will completely ignore the question of brought up).

 

Enjoy the more than decent games when there are decent games; and stop complaining about crap. Screaming "ZoMG! This crap stinks! Why can't it have corn in it? It'd make it better crap!" doesn't seem that effective.