Volourn Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 "I see no reason ever to buy or even test NWN nor NWN 2 in matter of fact" Game over. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@\NightandtheShape/@ Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 ToEE was so buy I couldn't even get the game to work right at all, unlike NWN when I first got it. Also unlike NWN, ToEE had next to no support after release. As for the OC ToEE was pretty damn lacking in that department. Every IE game, even IWD 2, beats ToEE in the story department. Hell, even NWN OC beats ToEE in the story department and that is pretty damn sad. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Never mentioned story. Never mentioned support. Only ever mentioned engine technology in terms of implementing the D&D ruleset. Personal experiences with buggy software are that of personal experiences, and in no way influence my opinion of a game, only it's stability. "I'm a programmer at a games company... REET GOOD!" - Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 So the most important thing to you is how well a ruleset is implemented? I'm glad ToEE was not buggy for you, but it was buggy for a huge percentage of people. It was not a stable game. Playing it unpatched all the way through was virtually impossible. It had an excellent combat system and that's about it. Looking at the total package, ToEE doesn't compete with NWN. The sales numbers, the reviews, and the general concensus on the internet all support that. Your opinion, which you are entitled to, is not shared by many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Heck, OC vs. OC, NWN still crushes despite only being 'average'. R00fles! And, as long as TOEE has rules implementations like its version of identify, I just gotta laugh. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Never mentioned story. Never mentioned support. Only ever mentioned engine technology in terms of implementing the D&D ruleset. Personal experiences with buggy software are that of personal experiences, and in no way influence my opinion of a game, only it's stability. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sorry, but I look at a game as a whole not one single aspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 (edited) I would say my check off list for what makes a game good goes like this: 1. Gameplay - That's pretty simple. It's the reason I still break out JA2 and Xcom. The gameplay needs to capture my attention. 2. Graphics - Try as I might to play old classics, very few games can keep my attention without decent visuals. A great looking game gets my attention, and the gameplay sustains it. 3. Story - Pretty much a tie with 2, but I've played great story games with bad graphics, and I still lose interest. On the contrary, I've put up with a few terrible stories for the sake of graphics and gameplay. 4. Setting - I'm just not into the WW2 setting anymore. No matter how excellent the game might be, if the setting is tired to me, I will not stick with the game. 5. Stability - It's only this low because most games are fairly stable. I have no problem patching games. I can go on and on, but let me highlight. #13 is multiplayer, and #58 is engine technology in terms of implementing the D&D ruleset. Edited August 18, 2006 by Hurlshot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@\NightandtheShape/@ Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Generally speaking I see ToEE as being a game. I haven't made a single claim in regards to gfx, stability, story, etc... All I said was the rules were implemented very well and in that it was king. It is in that respect closest to PnP. I have made no other claims, and Vol your comment about identify is noted and I agree. If one compares the implemetaion of the ruleset in NWN to ToEE one can see that ToEE, in terms of rules is the better of the two. Is that a claim that either is better or more fun than the other, nope. I focused upon one aspect, and while my experience with ToEE was a rather nice and clean experience, I'm also aware that the same experience hasn't been shared. what irks me the most is the assertsion and claims made in posts that I have in some way claimed ToEE as the better game on the whole. "I'm a programmer at a games company... REET GOOD!" - Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 (edited) "If one compares the implemetaion of the ruleset in NWN to ToEE one can see that ToEE, in terms of rules is the better of the two." True; but sadly for TOEE, D&D is more than just a bunch of rules stuck together. TOEE forgot the spirit (or, mor elikely, ignored it) of D&D which is DMed adventures with other players. "what irks me the most is the assertsion and claims made in posts that I have in some way claimed ToEE as the better game on the whole." 'Tis a good thing I never claimed that you thought that. Edited August 19, 2006 by Volourn DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@\NightandtheShape/@ Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 "If one compares the implemetaion of the ruleset in NWN to ToEE one can see that ToEE, in terms of rules is the better of the two." True; but sadly for TOEE, D&D is more than just a bunch of rules stuck together. TOEE forgot the spirit (or, mor elikely, ignored it) of D&D which is DMed adventures with other players. "what irks me the most is the assertsion and claims made in posts that I have in some way claimed ToEE as the better game on the whole." 'Tis a good thing I never claimed that you thought that. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oh I agree wholehearted with what your saying, there indeed is more to D&D than ruleset implementation. NWN's has everything else for sure in comparison. "I'm a programmer at a games company... REET GOOD!" - Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greylord Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 (edited) ToEE is one of the buggiest POS gsmes I have ever had the misfortuned of playing. In fact there has only been one game buggier and that was Ulitma 9. The Infinity Engine was good in its day but that day has passed. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Haven't played many games have you? I know of a great number just in the year it was released alone... I know of a great many just inclusive of D&D games...for example POR with it's classic removal of your OS bug...or NWN with it's less well known and more minor removal of your OS bug...both of which I think are more significant with just that bug alone (much less the others) since that erases your harddrive entirely. Talk about a bug... Then there were the timing problems on the original release of the silver archives, and the bugs with D&D online. That's at least four games I'd put as more buggy on release (okay three, since technically the Silver Archives had been release previously, and weren't optimized for the system/OS of the day they were released on) than ToEE...and that's just with D&D games. Luckily I'm normally pretty tech savvy (of course, who do you expect but the one who figured out how to run NWN so long ago ON A VOODOO card!!!) so these normally don't bother me, but that doesn't mean I don't know ABOUT the bugs. Just because you suffered more from one game's bugs than you did from other games bugs...doesn't necessarily make a game the most buggy game...maybe for you (but then see my first statement), but bugginess is more about the bugs encountered by all then just one person. On the topic of the IE engine or ToEE engine...BG did AD&D much better, as ToEE never did AD&D, only 3.5 for it's time. Added: and I suppose that would also apply vice versa. As for NWN and ToEE, it would all devolve into whether you want SP or MP. As for NWN ruling because it involves a DM and players and hence is superior...That same argument holds true for MUDDS. Hence the stupidity arguement that this is a stupid point should hold sway. Instead use the MP vs. the SP arguments, in which case rulewise ToEE is out of the running for MP, and NWN really doesn't implement the rules in and SP game as well as ToEE, though there have been some rather good mods that make the SP game rather interesting and can be good replications of rules in some ways (though I'm NOT a HARDCORE ruleset fan for NWN myself, and many of those changes aren't looked upon favorably by me...but to each their own). Edited August 28, 2006 by greylord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Raven Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 ToEE was 3.0, 3.5 did not exist yet. Hades was the life of the party. RIP You'll be missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darque Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 Good point that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greylord Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 (edited) ToEE was 3.0, 3.5 did not exist yet. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It was 3.5, and yes it came out in September of 2003. I think I should know, but maybe we're playing different...ToEE's??? I'm pretty certain it was 3.5, why don't you fire it up and take a look at the game... Added: Actually I'm not just certain, I'm positive it was 3.5 edition. I admit I haven't played it in a while, but my memory hasn't gotten THAT foggy yet. Edited August 28, 2006 by greylord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darque Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 *checks the internet* oops I guess it was 3.5 after all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 *checks the internet* Yep, still here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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