Something for you to think about

[Judge Hades]

Not really. That does not necessarily mean they are self aware, though that does not mean they don't have the potential to do so further along their evolutionary path. Evolution and mutation is still very much happening today in lower life forms. One of my friends has a pair of cats that have an equivelent to an opposable thumb which the cats use to grab and hold items for their use.

Edited August 7, 2006 by Judge Hades

[Blank]

Even a dog is aware of food or a toy, but that does not make it self aware.  Can it look at a mirror and realize the image he sees is not another dog but himself?  Just because you learned to catch a ball at 1 year old does not make you self aware.

 

As for quoting scripture my view of the bible is that it is a well written mythology.  It is the written record of events that happened thousands of years in the biased view of a patriarchal monotheistic culture which uses mythic and the supernatural to explain what was unexplainable given the technologies that existed at the time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I quoted scripture not to persuade you, but to show my beliefs' source.

 

As for the awareness thing, I was talking about something happening to a kid at the age of 1, such as, almost drowning every day for a year, and then when the kid is older, he has a fear of water. His "soul" is changed based on a time when his soul wasn't activated?

Edited August 7, 2006 by Blank

[alanschu]

What does it mean to be self-aware?

[Blank]

For one to understand that he or she exists.

[alanschu]

Still seems a bit introspective.

 

How does one conclude that he or she exists? Or better yet, how can we demonstrate that something that isn't "self-aware" is incapable of understanding he or she exists?

[Blank]

I don't think you or I can verify it for sure, but we can certainly see the effects of it. ("it" being the self-awareness of the he or she that is not yourself)

 

For yourself, you might say, "I think, therefore I am."

 

From that article, "Jaakko Hintikka offered a non-syllogistic interpretation. 'I exist' is immune to Descartes' method of doubt because it is impossible to be mistaken about one's own existence. If we don't exist then we can't be mistaken, so we might as well believe we do."

 

Where the heck is Meta when you need him?

Edited August 7, 2006 by Blank

[Archmonarch]

One of my friends has a pair of cats that have an equivelent to an opposable thumb which the cats use to grab and hold items for their use.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This is what is known as a dew claw.

[Judge Hades]

As for the awareness thing, I was talking about something happening to a kid at the age of 1, such as, almost drowning every day for a year, and then when the kid is older, he has a fear of water. His "soul" is changed based on a time when his soul wasn't activated?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

In that case it was his fear that "activated" his soul. Recognizing one's mortality is a step of being self aware.

[Nikolas]

I hope she has a good life.

 

She looks happy in the pictures of her on the site.

 

I will not comment on the morality of abortion or her parents posing her for the world. I am for abortion and think it should be the choice of the woman and her partner or if she is a drunkard/drug addict/serial killer etc. someone else should maybe help her with a decision.

 

They say she will have more surgeries and those might help make her life easier later on. Hope all goes well.

 

She also seems to have a nice family and was that her sister on some of the shots with her? If her sister is with her at this early age hopefully she accepts her sisters face and learns or has learnt to love her.

 

She is her own person and should of course be allowed to live.

 

I, as someone else said, hope she will be able to find happiness and her own way of life. And I hope her family/friends will support her.

 

I repeat,

 

I hope she has a good life.

[Terranova]

An interesting discussion.

 

The whole abortion thing is irrelavant seeing as how there was no way the parents or doctors could know she would be missing almost half of her skull.

 

On the matter of Juliana Wetmore. I don't think it's neccesary to suddenly treat her as a special living being or someone who deserves extra attention. The way I see it, it's best not to pity people like this. I myself would honestly hate it if someone treated me with more respect just because I'm missing a limb or something. But hey, that's just me.

[alanschu]

That's easy to say when you're not in that situation though.

 

I agree that pity is not the best solution, but it's going to come the second the ass monkey's in the world notice her in real life. The possibilty of this person having a life remotely as "normal" as the vast majority of people is zero percent.

[Terranova]

That's easy to say when you're not in that situation though.

 

I agree that pity is not the best solution, but it's going to come the second the ass monkey's in the world notice her in real life.  The possibilty of this person having a life remotely as "normal" as the vast majority of people is zero percent.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well of course chances are she might never live a 'normal' lifestyle within our society. She can't speak or hear, so she'll probably end up handicapped. It's a shame though, she'll have no choice but to live with it. When I say we shouldn't be pitful towards her I mean that we shouldn't be buying her gifts, or giving her extra positive attention so that she'll somehow feel more 'normal'.

 

Even if I were in her position, I wouldn't be asking for a bunch of people to feel sorry for me. When that kind of stuff happens it doesn't make you feel normal, it does quite the contrary. Of course that's just from my perspective of things.

[Musopticon?]

Eh, the problem isn't everyday necessities like food and such, but the fact that 70% of us are complete morons when it comes to anything even remotely different. Really, I doubt she can lead anything resembling normal life, with that kind of face, her existence will be very sheltered or either living hell.

Edited August 8, 2006 by Musopticon?

[Azarkon]

Why 70%? As opposed to, say, 90% or 10% or 50%?

 

Odd number... (except it's even, meh ")

Edited August 8, 2006 by Azarkon

[Blank]

There is also a difference between pitying someone and seeing how they can be helped. Showering gifts probably doesn't help, but that girl will need help to get through life, and to ignore that is stupid... er, faulty.

[alanschu]

I think a lot of "pity" comes in response to seeing how other people act.

 

I could definitely see it when I worked as a manager in a restaurant. When a waitress has a particularly unruly table, and the rest of her section is full, she typically doesn't mind in the end. Assuming she is at least somewhat decent at her job, she'll often rake in more money with "pity tips" from the rest of the tables in her section. The pity percentage goes up the more unruly the table too it seems.

[Judge Hades]

There is also a difference between pitying someone and seeing how they can be helped. Showering gifts probably doesn't help, but that girl will need help to get through life, and to ignore that is stupid... er, faulty.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I do agree with this. I don't really pity people. Pity is a worthless emotion. You either help out a person if they are in need or you do not, and only help if they have a need or desire for that help. How one acts towards their fellow human being , for good or ill, is more important than emotional feelings.

[Walsingham]

For the record(do we have a record?); I'm not pro-abortion because she is hideous, but because I can't really call the kind of existence she is going to lead when she gets older "living".

 

If I got bullied because my sister was a [backward-slow], I can't imagine what's going to happen to a girl with a deformed face. And living a sheltered life isn't really living either.

 

EDITs by Cantousent.

 

The removed word is peculiar in that it isn't a swear word and yet it's the word I've been asked to delete most often.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Isn't how she's treated kind of society's damn responsibility? I mean wouldn't it be more fair to 'abort' the people who treat someone like this badly? *half-serious*

[Musopticon?]

Of course.

[Calax]

oye now you guys are starting to remind me of "mice and men"

[Pidesco]

One of my favourite books ever.

[Musopticon?]

Elaborate and brief a common stooge.

 

Durr, wut is Mice'n men?

[Calax]

a book that in my area was required reading for eighth graders. It's about migrant farmhands trying to make a buck but ones a bit of a retard (seriously not the "u r!" version) but is a giant.

 

it's... a trip.

[Pidesco]

Elaborate and brief a common stooge.

 

Durr, wut is Mice'n men?

 

http://www.supportlibrary.com/nl/users/mas...b/path13-1.html

 

Here are the first pages of the book. It's cheap, so buy it.

[alanschu]

But is it as good as Mice at Center Ice?