Kreia's REAL name?

[Jesse Conroy]

I finally looked up the whole Traya thing on wookieepedia.com now I understand.

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yeah i put the url up i dont know if anyone looked at it but it explained it nicely and i think shes kae

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Yeah, it explained it quite well. I am glad I know now, because that whole issue was getting on my nerves.

[seejai]

yeah i was pretty confused i was like AH whos kae haha

[Jesse Conroy]

yeah i was pretty confused i was like AH whos kae  haha

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I didn't hear her being called kae either, now I am even more confused.

[Jorian Drake]

Greetings folks...had a question and ask that you forgive me if this has already been addressed but in the game when the Exile returns to Telos (after Kreia kills the remaining masters on Dantooine), he/she asks Atris "Where is Kreia?".

 

Atris responds something along the lines of "Kreia?...that is not her name"

 

If that was not her name, was Atris trying to say Kreia's real name is/was Darth Traya or did she go by another name before she was exiled herself?

 

She is the old Bastila who arrived trough Forceuse on timeline, and tried to send help after her beloved/master Revan.

[Alec]

Bah, Bastila is bout 25 years old. Kreia's about 60 or more.

[DeathScepter]

they have a few things incommon

 

 

1. they are meatbags.

 

2. they are female.

 

3. they have ties to Revan.

 

4. they are in the Same game(howbeit at different times).

 

 

 

 

 

But they are not the same person.

[Alec]

1. They were both Jedi Masters

2. They both taught Revan in the ways of the Force

3. They were both around the same period

4. They both faught in the Mandy Wars

5. They both were exiled from the Jedi Order

 

So they are the same person

[Alec]

Kreia can`t be Bastila because someone like myself already killed her in Kotor 1

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In fact she isn't... she has nothing to do with Bastila. Kreia was only interested in finding Revan to understand whether it was her teachings that led him to the DS or the influence of Malachor V... but eventually she found the Trayus Academy and became corrupted by its power.

[Xard]

And Bastila survives from k1, if you are LS in k1 Bastila is turned back to light during that conversation in SF - even if you fail and you have to kill her. K2 assumes that you saved her -, if DS... well, she survives.

[vaxen83]

Glad you're back Xard. Forums have been lacking with ideas.

[Alec]

But in K2 we don't know whether she is still alive or has gone to look for Revan.

[GreasyDogMeat]

Thanks for the great and indepth breakdown Architect. Even if a person doesn't buy the Kreia - Kae connection your posts have been very helpful in understanding her motivation and what lead her to her position.

 

Wouldn't that have been a great extra twist at the ending though? Just as you defeat Kreia/Traya she gives your memory back and you remember her from the Mandalorian wars and as the mother of the Handmaiden.

 

This is one thing I love about KoTOR 2 over KoTOR 1, all of these extremly complicated and woven storylines that you learn a little bit more of every time you play. The game is just layered like a mega onion. KoTOR 1 is much more in your face and plain, (This is Malak, he is a bad guy) besides the plot twist that is.

 

On the other side, it's aggravating trying to figure out how many of these intricate plot twists and hints are 'brilliant' because they were designed that way, or because of all the cut content that has only left hints and minor clues that may have even been removed as well.

 

Is the Kae - Kreia connection only the chunks of a whole that the devs didn't have time to COMPLETLY remove ala HK50 factory/GO-TO Remote showdown, or a great 'read between the lines and decide for yourself' plot?

[Xard]

Glad you're back Xard. Forums have been lacking with ideas.

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Thanks

 

I was having some extra real life for a week

 

Even though Exile and Kreia both fought in mandalorian wars, this doesn't mean that they met. I mean, there was atleast thousands of jedi who went to fight against mandalorians

[Alec]

Glad you're back Xard. Forums have been lacking with ideas.

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Thanks

 

I was having some extra real life for a week

 

Even though Exile and Kreia both fought in mandalorian wars, this doesn't mean that they met. I mean, there was atleast thousands of jedi who went to fight against mandalorians

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The Exile was a general under Revan so he/she probably was quite reknown throughout the Jedi lines.

[Xard]

All jedis were generals during Mandy Wars

[Alec]

I don't think so... perhaps many leaded groups of Jedi but there weren't 1000 Jedi generals.

[Xard]

Why not? All jedis were generals during clone wars too, and during new sith wars etc.

 

You have to understand that before Malachor V Exile was random jedi X, who was not mediocre force user and jedi in other ways too.

[Alec]

I find it very hard to believe. Wasn't Obi-Wan Kenobi one of the few generals during the Clone Wars?

[phyre]

Even when Kreia was a Sith, she had some notion that neither the light-side or dark-side of the Force was superior to the other. Due to the fact her teachings incorporated light-side concepts (for example, she never believed in power or destruction for its own sake), Darth Sion and Darth Nihilus grew weary of her. They betrayed her, stripped her of power, and exiled her. She described her fall from power thus:

 

"There are dark places in the galaxy, where few tread. Ancient centers of learning, of knowledge. But I did not walk alone. To be united by hatred is a fragile alliance at best. But my will was not law. There were disagreements, ambition . . . and hunger for power. There are techniques within the Force against which there is no defense. I was cast down, stripped of my power, exiled. I suffered indignities, and fell into darkness."

 

Kreia would refine her beliefs while wandering the galaxy, eventually coming to view the Force as being a sort of uncaring, insidious god that uses the lives of sentients as pawns in a pernicious game of balance. This, she thought, was evidenced by the widespread occurrences of destruction and death that had persistently transpired throughout the galaxy to that point, many of which could be traced to a conflict between force-sensitives.

 

Yet, Kreia blamed neither the Jedi nor the Sith, but rather the very thing they had both come to draw and rely upon: the Force itself. She was, however, upset with the Jedi and the Sith for being too "caught up in the game" to realize how the Force was manipulating them.

 

After being exiled from the Jedi Order (it was supposedly because she was blamed for Revan's corruption and all of the other renegade Jedi that fell to the dark-side at Malachor V, however, when Master Kavar sees Kreia, he says "I thought you had died in the Mandalorian Wars" implying that Kreia couldn't have possibly be exiled because of her teachings, because her exile would have happened after the Mandalorian Wars.

 

And again after Kreia was exiled from Malachor V by her impatient Sith students Darth Nihilus and Darth Sion, she had thus experienced betrayals from, and saw the flaws of, both the light and dark side of the Force. These unique experiences disillusioned her and forced her to refine her ways of thinking.

 

When she heard about the Exile, she saw proof that life could exist without the Force, which she saw as disproof of the traditional dogma of both the Sith and Jedi that the Force and life itself were inseparable by nature. This renewed her confidence in her personal beliefs and fueled her desire to learn more of the Exile's personal motivations.

 

By the end of her adventures with the Exile, Kreia had discovered that certain tragedies can leave wounds in the Force, which sometimes make it difficult to hear and be used. These "echoes," as she called them, provided a possible avenue through which it was possible to attack the Force. Her discovery was due in no small part to the Exile, as his/her experience at Malachor V, where he/she willingly severed his/her own bond with the Force, created an echo large enough that Kreia was able to connect the tragedy to the wound created in the Force. According to Kreia, those who had chosen death (or the Jedi who chose the dark-side) over a life devoid of the Force were not strong enough to deserve life. Her desire to prevent unnecessary death in the future was the overbearing motivation that cultivated her hatred for the Force. She once explained how one such as she could use the Force despite loathing it by comparing herself to one who studies poison. Just as such a person would strive to understand the lethality behind poison, so she strives to understand the particularities of the Force, thereby enabling her to destroy it, perhaps.

 

Kreia envisioned a galaxy that would choose not to acquiesce to the will of the Force. She thought she could achieve this by showing how one could willingly abnegate the Force and eventually become stronger for it, and it was the Exile who was a living testament to this. In her teachings with the Exile, she emphasized how dependent the Jedi and Sith were on the Force, and how they had become flawed for it. By making the Exile her prot

[Alec]

Interesting fact. But I'm outta credits at the moment...

I guess some facts are better explained here than in the game.

Edited August 2, 2006 by Alec

[Guest The Architect]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darth_Traya

 

Give credit where it's due.

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Bah, it was easier to cut, paste and edit instead of typing a whole essay about Kreia's teachings, when I already know all of the stuff in the wikipedia article on Kreia's teachings all too well anyway.

 

It was easier on this occassion to do cut and paste, since all I had to do is proof-read the article and edit it to my liking, or remove/change anything I didn't agree with, but your right, I should have acknowledged where that information came from. But on the other hand, it's no big deal anyway...

Edited August 3, 2006 by The Architect

[Purgatorio]

Good Xard is back someone that keeps the .........

Architect ,

You should always acknowledge were it came from otherwise you could just make up random things such as ,there are a bunch of carbonised Chinese junks buried on a beach in southern New Zealand. Then use some other conjecture and interpretation of some conversation mix it with piles of information to confuse the public and...well then we have your Avi in power.

Sorry couldn't resist.

 

I do not see how the two names amalgamate to Kriea. Granted the portmanteau is a possibility. Although she could have changed her name for a number of reasons ,one of them being secrecy. Since Kriea has been established as an unreliable source is any thing she says in the conversation between her and the Exile on Arren K to be taken as fact? Granted we know it to be true that Brianna has a mother and her name was Kae...(sp?) However you must also look at the reason for the conversation. It could be interpreted another way ,as a warning not to get close for example. After all Atris did send her on the mission did she not. Yes it could be interpreted as 'learn from my mistakes so as not to repeat them' or to put it another way }in this case the Jedi code is right. I point to the conversation on Visas.

 

The idea that Kriea could only know what the death of Malachore felt like because she was there is mistaken. She was on the surface for some time ,the very heart of Malachore channels the force...you could say everything converges on the core causing great pressure crushing the life out of all who walk on it's surface. Surely being on the planet at anytime would cause some kind of knowledge or empathy to be obtained. She even said to the corpses of the Masters 'How could you know if you have never walked on its surface.'

 

As for what Kavar says....I honestly can't remember if he said Mandalorian or simply war ,as I am distracted by Vrook flying. I am sorry but I can't trust your word nothing personal ,I am just weird like that. Memory is a funny thing I can play a Bach concerto from memory but can't remember something so simple as one sentence. Find me a voice file so we can all be certain.

 

I must admit I had not even considered the possibility that Kriea could be Brianna's mother until coming to this Forum.

 

Of course it is all conjecture and there is nothing wrong with that. But to say since none have found anything to the contrary it is proof that some thing is fact ,is idiotic. One might as well say belief is a science ,ergo God is real because you can't prove otherwise ,then thumb our noses like little children.

Oh how I love speculating.

Edited August 4, 2006 by Purgatorio

[Xard]

Why not? All jedis were generals during clone wars too, and during new sith wars etc.

 

You have to understand that before Malachor V Exile was random jedi X, who was not mediocre force user and jedi in other ways too.

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Ups, "who was nothing but" I meaned "

 

Yeah, jedis were generals