alanschu Posted June 17, 2006 Posted June 17, 2006 5 bucks or less? probably. I'm still not sure about it though... but then I'm getting kinda tired of fantasy games. Gimme more games with vampires and werewolves and flamethrowers (w00t) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I would think once werewolves and vampires are brought in, you're suddenly part of fantasy "
Judge Hades Posted June 17, 2006 Posted June 17, 2006 I think that it escapes Darque that when you place the supernatural in a game it automatically becomes fantasy regardless if it has modern aspects to it.
Cantousent Posted June 17, 2006 Posted June 17, 2006 Why stop there? Why not say that a game that has any element that cannot be found in reality must also fit the "fantasy" genre? I mean, Star Trek? Fantasy. Foundation? Fantasy. Hell, even stuff that anticipates the future is fantasy, right? The term fantasy has much more to do with setting than it does with individual elements. Otherwise, a Harlequin romance with a vampire main character becomes a fantasy novel. In reality, unless we're talking a different kind of fantasy, romance is a separate genre, even when it borrows elements from other genres. Werewolves are part and parcel of horror, but readers can easily find these werewolves in a fantasy novel. So, no, Hades, placing supernatural elements in a novel does not, in and of itself, make a game fantasy. Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community: Happy Holidays Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:Obsidian Plays Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris. Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!
Darque Posted June 17, 2006 Posted June 17, 2006 I would think once werewolves and vampires are brought in, you're suddenly part of fantasy " <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nice try fanboi you know what I mean
Judge Hades Posted June 17, 2006 Posted June 17, 2006 (edited) Why stop there? Why not say that a game that has any element that cannot be found in reality must also fit the "fantasy" genre? I mean, Star Trek? Fantasy. Foundation? Fantasy. Hell, even stuff that anticipates the future is fantasy, right? The term fantasy has much more to do with setting than it does with individual elements. Otherwise, a Harlequin romance with a vampire main character becomes a fantasy novel. In reality, unless we're talking a different kind of fantasy, romance is a separate genre, even when it borrows elements from other genres. Werewolves are part and parcel of horror, but readers can easily find these werewolves in a fantasy novel. So, no, Hades, placing supernatural elements in a novel does not, in and of itself, make a game fantasy. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wrong again eldar. Its not about any element, but elements that could not possibly exist without a supernatural or magical base. Werewolves are part of fantasy, and stretches into horror in how it is depicted. The aspects of Star Trek are theoretical and during the day it was first envision, was a technologically a possibility while supernatural vampires are impossible to exist. The problems with many science fiction novels and stories is that they focus too much on the fiction and not enough on the science, but that is a different discussion altogether. Bottomline if a game, novel, movie, or whatever has supernatural elements that are an impossibility it is fantasy. How that fantasy is portrayed, may that emphasis be generic, horror, romance, space opera, whatever does not change the fact that it is still fantasy. Edited June 17, 2006 by Judge Hades
Kaftan Barlast Posted June 17, 2006 Author Posted June 17, 2006 I think that it escapes Darque that when you place the supernatural in a game it automatically becomes fantasy regardless if it has modern aspects to it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Meaningless discussion about semantics ohoy!! ) But seriously, Hades. For the overwhelming majority, fantasy means swordplay, dragons and magic in a pseudo-medieval world. It doesnt matter that youve got this neat academic definition, because the mob rules. Dungeons&Dragons - Fantasy LotR - Fantasy Word of Warcraft All that crap with wheels of time and enchanters and Conan and crap - Fantasy Vampire the Masquerade - Not fantasy Star Wars - Not fantasy Dune - not fantasy DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. "
Judge Hades Posted June 17, 2006 Posted June 17, 2006 If that is how you wish to see it, then be my guest. I prefer the more analytical approach in defining genre.
Darque Posted June 17, 2006 Posted June 17, 2006 If that is how you wish to see it, then be my guest. I prefer the more analytical approach in defining genre. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Must be nice all by your lonesome
mkreku Posted June 17, 2006 Posted June 17, 2006 Nooo, the beauuuutiful Gothic 2 thread is being destroyed.. BY SEMANTICS! Swedes, go to: Spel2, for the latest game reviews in swedish!
Darque Posted June 17, 2006 Posted June 17, 2006 Nooo, the beauuuutiful Gothic 2 thread is being destroyed.. BY SEMANTICS! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Blame Hades, and then send a werewolf after him, we all know where that'll lead.
mkreku Posted June 17, 2006 Posted June 17, 2006 But.. but.. there are no werewolves in Gothic 2!! Swedes, go to: Spel2, for the latest game reviews in swedish!
Judge Hades Posted June 17, 2006 Posted June 17, 2006 Oh yes, we must have that obligatory werewolf remark. Oh yes we do.
Darque Posted June 17, 2006 Posted June 17, 2006 Oh yes, we must have that obligatory werewolf remark. Oh yes we do. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You did it to yourself. I mean it was in your example.
Dark_Raven Posted June 17, 2006 Posted June 17, 2006 I think that it escapes Darque that when you place the supernatural in a game it automatically becomes fantasy regardless if it has modern aspects to it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Meaningless discussion about semantics ohoy!! ) But seriously, Hades. For the overwhelming majority, fantasy means swordplay, dragons and magic in a pseudo-medieval world. It doesnt matter that youve got this neat academic definition, because the mob rules. Dungeons&Dragons - Fantasy LotR - Fantasy Word of Warcraft All that crap with wheels of time and enchanters and Conan and crap - Fantasy Vampire the Masquerade - Not fantasy Star Wars - Not fantasy Dune - not fantasy <{POST_SNAPBACK}> VtM is a tough one to place in a genre. It has fantasy beings (vampires) but its set in a modern time. Hades was the life of the party. RIP You'll be missed.
Cantousent Posted June 17, 2006 Posted June 17, 2006 (edited) While I'm sure you'd like me to bow before your superior intellect and analytical approach, I simply won't. There is no real difference between science fiction and fantasy other than setting. Star Trek is a fantasy. Even fiction with a more scientific bent is only science inasmuch as it uses real science. The moment it deviates from established reality, it goes into fiction mode. Why do we have different elements of fiction in the first place? To make it easier to go into a store and choose a book? Because the human mind works by separating similar items into different categories? I dunno. What I do know is that your claim of greater insight or your profession of a better analytical approach is unconvincing. Really, it boils down to the same old business of some person trying to force others to buy in to his particular vision. Well, Hades, your vision is blurred. While I think it's flawed, I'll take the bookstore's categories over yours. After all, Orson Scott Card's books, with all their mystical and supernatural references, still end up in Science Fiction all the time. That's because, individual elements aren't the last word on any genre. EDIT: Got Orson mixed up with his character, Andrew for a moment. Edited June 17, 2006 by Eldar Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community: Happy Holidays Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:Obsidian Plays Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris. Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!
Dark_Raven Posted June 17, 2006 Posted June 17, 2006 Star Trek is not fantasy, it's science fiction. Hades was the life of the party. RIP You'll be missed.
Cantousent Posted June 17, 2006 Posted June 17, 2006 My point is that we create genres to make it easier to find a book. Star Trek might as well be fantasy for all the pseudo-science crap we find in it, but it falls into the science fiction category. In fact, you still see a lot of bookstores that have a single Fantasy/Science Fiction area. Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community: Happy Holidays Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:Obsidian Plays Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris. Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!
Kaftan Barlast Posted June 17, 2006 Author Posted June 17, 2006 (edited) Noun: genre zhaanru A class of art (or artistic endeavour) having a characteristic form or technique Characteristics: Fantasy: medievalism, magic, swordfighting Sci-fi: technology, space, alien species Western: southwest america, cowboys & indians Horror: monsters, murders and ghosts Genres as an idea are defined by the public, thus the public definition of a genre is the correct one. VtM is a tough one to place in a genre. It has fantasy beings (vampires) but its set in a modern time. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The modern vampire was invented in the late 1800s, it is a creature of victorian horror, not fantasy in any way (even though most fantasy games have their version of vampires) Edited June 17, 2006 by Kaftan Barlast DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. "
alanschu Posted June 17, 2006 Posted June 17, 2006 I'm going to have to agree with Hades on this one.
Cantousent Posted June 17, 2006 Posted June 17, 2006 (edited) I can accept that, Kaftan. *shrug* Okay, alan. It's no great sin to be mistaken. However, I'd like to know how far you push this "supernatural" business. Does this mean that horror does not exist as a genre because you and Hades share a patented "analytical approach?" hahaha Edited June 17, 2006 by Eldar Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community: Happy Holidays Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:Obsidian Plays Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris. Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!
Darque Posted June 17, 2006 Posted June 17, 2006 I'm going to have to agree with Hades on this one. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You'd be wrong also then Just because something has something that supposedly doesn't exist in the real world doesn't make it fantasy. If it did, any work of fiction would be fantasy regardless of setting. Raiders of the Lost Arc: Fantasy Da Vinci Code: Fantasy Spaggetti Westerns: Fantasy LOST: Fantasy Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Fantasy Fallout: Fantasy
mkreku Posted June 17, 2006 Posted June 17, 2006 Wouldn't that mean that everything except biographies and pure documentaries is fantasy? Swedes, go to: Spel2, for the latest game reviews in swedish!
Darque Posted June 17, 2006 Posted June 17, 2006 Wouldn't that mean that everything except biographies and pure documentaries is fantasy? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> According to Hades, yes.
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